What to expect - acoustic guitar mic over shoulder

[Pughbert]

Im working on a small (3/4 song) project of my own material at the mo. The songs all have acoutic guitar as the main instrument. I was wondering what to expect/look for when micing over my shoulder?

Any over tips on doing this would be great also - cheers.

 

[Rokket]

It's been suggested that a good condensor mic over your shoulder will capture the guitar sound more as your ear would hear it. Try placing over your right shoulder, with the cone even with your ear, about a foot or so in front of you, pointed down toward the body. I'd also put a mic at the 12th fret, 6-8 inches from the neck, aimed slightly toward the soundhole (experiment to find a "sweet spot" that is not too boomy).


check out this site for a little more in depth study of mic placement:

http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/ZAAPf/m/mic_place.html

 

[punkin]

I've got a couple questions about this technique. I've fiddled with it a little but keep finding myself going back to the old x/y set up. Plus, it was a bit awkward working by myself.

First question, does the 3 to 1 rule still apply? (I'm thinking probobly yes). If so, then where do you measure to/from on the over shoulder mic? From the sound hole?

Secondly does the mic point out/away as the ear does or, do you point it down at the sound hole/bridge area.

BTW, perhaps the site you recommended visiting was down for the moment but I could not get past the first page. Thanks.

 

[Rokket]

I've got a couple questions about this technique. I've fiddled with it a little but keep finding myself going back to the old x/y set up. Plus, it was a bit awkward working by myself.

First question, does the 3 to 1 rule still apply? (I'm thinking probobly yes). If so, then where do you measure to/from on the over shoulder mic? From the sound hole?

Secondly does the mic point out/away as the ear does or, do you point it down at the sound hole/bridge area.

BTW, perhaps the site you recommended visiting was down for the moment but I could not get past the first page. Thanks.

When I attempted it, I used a dynamic mic because it was all I had, but the principle is the same. It was just pointed down toward the body of the guitar.
I am not sure about the 3 to 1 rule. I generally play around with placement until I get it to sound good. It is a pain when you are by yourself, but the results make it worth it.
I don't know what happened to the site. It works for me....

 

[scrubs]

http://www.humbuckermusic.com/acguitrectec.html

This site has soundclips for 3 common 2-mic techniques, including over the shoulder. Of course, their mics on their guitar will sound different. My opinion is, XY gives a nice tight pattern that sits better in a dense mix. The spaced pair techniques give a fuller, wider sound that is often preferable for sparse mixes or solo acoustic pieces.

 

[NYMorningstar]

First question, does the 3 to 1 rule still apply? (I'm thinking probobly yes). If so, then where do you measure to/from on the over shoulder mic? From the sound hole?

The 3:1 rule applies to miking 2 sources not one instrument with 2 mics.

 

[XLR]

I've tried the over-the-shoulder positioning in various ways - two mic's each near an ear to hear what I hear, or one over-the-shoulder and the other in front. Tried on steel string and nylon acoustic, but could never get a sound I liked as much as other configs out in front. And since I record myself, it always felt like I was climbing into some kind of claustrophobic contraption just to get into the chair after arranging the mics. HA.

Tim

 

[punkin]

The 3:1 rule applies to miking 2 sources not one instrument with 2 mics.

Hmmmm....not sure what to thing here...I thought 3 to 1 was a golden rule for any situation where 2 mics are used...the Humbucker site also makes reference to it...perhaps there's a bit of room for customization to the approach.


Thanks.

 

[giraffe]

The 3:1 rule applies to miking 2 sources not one instrument with 2 mics.

search the threads!!!!!

i don't want to have this discussion again

 

[ghettorig]

The 3:1 rule is to help minimize phase problems. If you have 2 mics on the same source, you can have phase problems. Especially if the mic levels are equal.

The 3:1 rule is a tool, not a rule. Always let your ears make the final decision. There will always be phase issues when using multiple mics, but sometimes that exactly what you want Does it sound good? Great! If not, move something, change a fader position, pan it differently, etc....

As giraffe said, searching the threads first will usually lead you to a better and faster answer:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=153465

http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/spotlight/bartlett/phase/phase.shtml

 

[XLR]

Problem is that there are "expert" sources that give conflicting info about the 3:1 rule.

When I think of the physics involved in phase issues with multiple mic's, the 3:1 rule only makes sense applied to single mic's on different instruments going into a single channel. And to me the rule's purpose is just as a quick setup guide for doing that. That it doesn't apply to mic'ing a single source makes sense to me also when I think about how various mic configurations actually sound relating to how mic's are - or arent' - intended to be summed.

Tim

 

[punkin]

Good stuff guys...I appreciate the tutorials. Here I'm taking from it that in the case of a solo instrument, the 3 to 1 is a good place to start but after that, what ever works...works.

In fact now that I think about it, I often do an x/y with a room mic a few feet back. I guess that would be breaking the 3 to 1 rule as well.

Good stuff.

 

[c7sus]

FWIW I think the over-the-shoulder tek is best suited for boomy guitars.

And the mic doesn't have to be over your shoulder. Use common sense when necessary.

 

[Sonixx]

Here's three songs using a pair of e22S SDC mics...

one aimed at the 12th fret and the other over the shoulder...

both mics are 15 inches from their source.

Dave Sherrep

I particularly like this technique and usually try it first when a stereo sound field is called for...

 

[XLR]

Here's three songs using a pair of e22S SDC mics...

one aimed at the 12th fret and the other over the shoulder...

both mics are 15 inches from their source.

Sonixx, thanks for posting that. Hadn't heard those Josephson side address mic's yet. What make of guitar is it? ...and what kind of compression is on it? Just trying to hear the gtr in perspective.

Tim

 

[Sonixx]

Sonixx, thanks for posting that. Hadn't heard those Josephson side address mic's yet. What make of guitar is it? ...and what kind of compression is on it? Just trying to hear the gtr in perspective.

Tim

Thanks Tim for replying... I've posted these clips several times before but generally there's never any interest or response.

Each song was either an Ovation nylon string or a Conn nylon string (don't know the model of either). I actually liked the Conn's tone better... it was a bit less woofy... I don't have my notes with me but I believe all the clips are the Ovation but Betrayed.

Compression was the PSP MixPressor mixed to about 75% uncompressed to 35% compressed.

I like the e22S a lot.

-Keith-

 

[XLR]

I've posted these clips several times before but generally there's never any interest or response. Each song was either an Ovation nylon string or a Conn nylon string

Keith, I know what you mean. It's a steel string/electric world and we nylon string guys have gotta stick together. [addendum- just realized you're not the performer, but same sentiment none the less]

You're getting a very good sound.

Tim

 

[Sonixx]

Keith, I know what you mean. It's a steel string/electric world and we nylon string guys have gotta stick together. [addendum- just realized you're not the performer, but same sentiment none the less]

You're getting a very good sound.

Tim

Thanks Tim...

 

[artCROSS]

just to chime in here:
I was always pleased with an xy with 2 SDC, but just for experimentation purposes, I tried an LDC (AT4040) over the shoulder with an SDC (mxl603s) on the 12th. It sounded more like I hear on pro albums than the xy. I don't like one over the other, but it's nice to hear different good sounds recorded with the same guitar.

 

[Rokket]

just to chime in here:
I was always pleased with an xy with 2 SDC, but just for experimentation purposes, I tried an LDC (AT4040) over the shoulder with an SDC (mxl603s) on the 12th. It sounded more like I hear on pro albums than the xy. I don't like one over the other, but it's nice to hear different good sounds recorded with the same guitar.

The only problem I had with it was that I don't have any condensor mics, as I explained above. It didn't sound bad, but if you are not in a good room, you'll know it right off the bat....