what to do with MIDI? Help!

[bouldersoundguy]

Before going to buy MIDI cables read the manual for your keyboard (or maybe just look at it) to determine if it has its own USB port. Many MIDI keyboards connect to the computer with USB so there would be no need for a MIDI interface. If it doesn't have USB for the MIDI then consider getting a combo audio/MIDI interface.

 

[ecc83]

There are really 3 types of MIDI keyboard (whether or not they make their own sounds)

First is the really cheap ass'ed type that just has a usb port. This can play data into a PC and might have some "controller" functions but that's about it.

Next is keyboard like my Evolution Ekey49. This has usb but also a DIN MIDI out so it can control/play another device/PC. Handy for us because we have two PCs, this old P4 that connects and powers the Evo via usb and a bigger, better W7 jobbie that runs from the DIN. Thus we do not have to faff about swopping usb plugs. (both computers have a 2496 soundcard in them).

Thirdly, and these are often a lot more money, is the type with usb and MIDI DIN in and out. These kbds can also work as a MIDI interface and allow the connection of other MIDI gear.

I will take this opportunity to say that not fitting MIDI ports to an audio interface is being a cheap a'ed illegitimate in the extreme IMHO! If you already HAVE a box with a processor in it and most AIs do, then fitting a couple of DINs and associated tronics is trivial. Ok, something with one mic and a guitar jack for 50quid I will allow but get to a ton and they really should have MIDI!

Dave.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I will take this opportunity to say that not fitting MIDI ports to an audio interface is being a cheap a'ed illegitimate in the extreme IMHO!

So those of use who just record real sounds should subsidize MIDI users' gear?

 

[ecc83]

So those of use who just record real sounds should subsidize MIDI users' gear?

Absolutely!

Must add all of two quid to the price and you never know when you might want to use a controller!

Dave.

 

[crystal_andersn]

i don't work with MIDI (but i know what it is) and I noticed that one of my stereo pedals (the boss sl-20 slicer) accepts a midi input which i assume can be used to control the BPM of the machine (there is no digital readout its just knob twiddling) by a midi clock source.

my question is: is it as simple as getting a proper cable and downloading a free app for iphone or mac osx to input a midi clock source? maybe what i'm looking for is a no-brainer but the apps i have seen get pretty mind-boggling for someone that does not work with midi. i just need to generate a clock signal and be able to modify that signal (not necessarily on the fly), like a metronome that you do not hear.

 

[brahma jay]

There are really 3 types of MIDI keyboard (whether or not they make their own sounds)

First is the really cheap ass'ed type that just has a usb port. This can play data into a PC and might have some "controller" functions but that's about it.

Next is keyboard like my Evolution Ekey49. This has usb but also a DIN MIDI out so it can control/play another device/PC. Handy for us because we have two PCs, this old P4 that connects and powers the Evo via usb and a bigger, better W7 jobbie that runs from the DIN. Thus we do not have to faff about swopping usb plugs. (both computers have a 2496 soundcard in them).

Thirdly, and these are often a lot more money, is the type with usb and MIDI DIN in and out. These kbds can also work as a MIDI interface and allow the connection of other MIDI gear.

I will take this opportunity to say that not fitting MIDI ports to an audio interface is being a cheap a'ed illegitimate in the extreme IMHO! If you already HAVE a box with a processor in it and most AIs do, then fitting a couple of DINs and associated tronics is trivial. Ok, something with one mic and a guitar jack for 50quid I will allow but get to a ton and they really should have MIDI!

Dave.

i think 3rd option is good but not sure how much will it cost. what brands would you recommend?

 

[brahma jay]

but do i need a midi keyboard if i have midi in my synth?
If i have it in my synth - the only one thing that i need is Midi interface, right?

 

[ecc83]

but do i need a midi keyboard if i have midi in my synth?
If i have it in my synth - the only one thing that i need is Midi interface, right?

If you have a "synth", that is to say a keyboard that connects to the computer via usb then all it can do it produce its own sounds and trigger "softsynths" in the PC. You have no other MIDI outputs to control anything else nor any inputs (i.e. another computer. Think about that one!)

Time was, peeps bought a decent soundcard such as my 2496's which HAD MIDI ports on it. Or, they bought an AI, usb or FW and again, almost always there was MIDI! Keyboards and controllers, sound modules, portasounds and £2000 synths only had DIN so there was no option and no confusion. Now we have usb MIDI devices and usb MIDI interfaces (there is even a usb MIDI host! Varder Kenton.com) But the fact remains that if you want a versatile, flexible MIDI setup get a card or an AI with 'king MIDI. AND a keyboard with at least a MIDI out.
Yes, 2 port, interfacing synth/controllers tend to be very pricey. I am just a bottle jockey who dabbles to help a musical son, I would not care to recommend something I have no hands on knowledge of.

Dave.

 

[brahma jay]

Dave thank you so much!!!! What would i do without you?
you've been a lot of help

 

[grumpyoldgit]

I think you'll find all your answers here
GoG

 

[davem12758]

so no friendly answers..
knew it

I feel ya Brahma. The thing you gotta remember about these snob engineer wanna-be's is that where they have abundance in knowledge, they lack in talent. The best place to start is in my opinion Wikipedia for an overview. There are usually plenty of references at the end. Good Luck

 

[diggy_dude]

I feel ya Brahma. The thing you gotta remember about these snob engineer wanna-be's is that where they have abundance in knowledge, they lack in talent. The best place to start is in my opinion Wikipedia for an overview. There are usually plenty of references at the end. Good Luck

Oh really? Brahma hasn't done even the most basic research, and it shows because he's all over the map with his questions. One minute he's excited about some expensive synth or another, the next minute he wants to do it all in Ableton with a controller. It's almost impossible to help someone who has no idea what they want to do.

 

[brahma jay]

Oh really? Brahma hasn't done even the most basic research, and it shows because he's all over the map with his questions. One minute he's excited about some expensive synth or another, the next minute he wants to do it all in Ableton with a controller. It's almost impossible to help someone who has no idea what they want to do.

believe it or not but i know what i wanna do.
and what ableton or whatever has to do with having a keyboard? one help another. im a piano player, meaning ill be composing using keyboard. ableton is good for other things like mixing etc.
and believe me, i've done my homework and did the research.
i dont understand why people would even say things like that... you either help or not.
and im very thankful for those who found time and explained..

 

[brahma jay]

I feel ya Brahma. The thing you gotta remember about these snob engineer wanna-be's is that where they have abundance in knowledge, they lack in talent. The best place to start is in my opinion Wikipedia for an overview. There are usually plenty of references at the end. Good Luck

thanks for support!

 

[accordianman]

MIDI is a pretty neat protocol, involving a "language" that was established in the early 80's. The term does not reflect a certain piece of gear, nor does it supersede any other method of communicating music information with another type of protocol. Many times, there is a desire to control another keyboard or "sound module" (No keys on those!), and rather than attempt to play both units simultaneously, the primary controller(Master) sends a data signal in midi format to the other unit.(The slave) Several slaves can be controlled by the Master, using the midi "thru" connectors for the units in between said Master and the last slave in what is called a "daisy chain" configuration. Midi protocol uses 16 discrete channels to be able to differentiate between instruments, voices, and even lighting controls. Some equipment recently implemented 32 channels, using an "A" or "B" designation to tell which group of 16 channels is to go to A or B, respectively.
Per each channel, there is data that acts like an "adjustment" for the following; Note 'on', note 'off'
'aftertouch', velocity, pitchbend, and volume, just to name a few. The range of "adjustment" is 127 steps, as far as the value range is concerned.
As instruments go, there is a plethora of sounds available; Some are vintage and generated by some form of synthesis, others are sampled, and therefore, a much more realistic rendering of a desired sound is achieved.
Many "complete" studios now include a midi keyboard of some sorts in the recording booth. This can be used for reference for desired sounds, or even used in the track mixing portion of a groove that is being "built up". You can also use a midi controller to play percussion. (Hey those are sounds too!)
Hope this starts you out with a better understanding....Accordianman

 

[grimtraveller]

There's so much info out there on the interwebs about MIDI already, you just need to go get it....so why make someone retype every little thing here just for your benefit?

In certain cases I agree with this..........but it does beg the question, what's the point in having HR.com then ? It's a bit like having a bible forum or something and someone writes in to ask what "Transubstantiation" is and they're given the reply "just read the bible, mate !"
In a dedicated recording forum, sometimes, the largeness of a topic is condensed by those who have some experience of it. The interwebs can be just too large, contradictory and unwieldly.

dealing with unknown could be really frustrating

This is the key statement really. Some people are just plain lazy. Others have trouble getting their heads around things. Everything probably needs to be taken on a case by case basis.

why do i need it?

How would we know?

I got the impression that brahma's was a rhetorical question, kind of a "I've heard people talking about this alot, but why would I need it ?", you know, persuade me. People do the same thing when they want to record analogue but the prevailing view is "use computers".
They'll ask "why do i need it ?".

I think you'll find all your answers here
GoG

Could you please explain in plain language the truths behind this mystic utterance.....?

oh im getting lost............. midi, midi controller, midi interface..

Sometimes, the experienced speak in a language that is normal and natural to them but which totally loses the newcomer. If it's any consolation bramah jay, 21 years into the game, there are still terms in common usage that I'm lost on !

Oh really? Brahma hasn't done even the most basic research, and it shows because he's all over the map with his questions. One minute he's excited about some expensive synth or another, the next minute he wants to do it all in Ableton with a controller.

That's a bit harsh. I think sometimes, we can forget what it's like to not know something, once we've acquired some understanding. There's a balance to be struck between giving someone everything and encouraging them to do a little finding out on their own. Are we doing our end well ?

It's almost impossible to help someone who has no idea what they want to do

Well, it can be. But that doesn't really apply in this case. This is more a case of "I have an end destination but I need some assisstance in negotiating the route ~ and at the moment I'm not a very good map reader.....".

 

[diggy_dude]

and believe me, i've done my homework and did the research.
i dont understand why people would even say things like that... you either help or not.
and im very thankful for those who found time and explained..

No offense, but your original question and your disdain for the first several replies lead me to the opposite conclusion. Insulting the regulars certainly will not get you the results you want either.

There's a balance to be struck between giving someone everything and encouraging them to do a little finding out on their own. Are we doing our end well ?

I don't think it unreasonable to expect a novice to read the available FAQs, stickies, etc., to gain enough general knowledge to know what questions to ask. MIDI is a very broad subject. No one here is inclined to produce a dissertation on it. An easier question would be "What can't you do with it?"

 

[grimtraveller]

No offense, but your original question and your disdain for the first several replies lead me to the opposite conclusion. Insulting the regulars certainly will not get you the results you want either.

Blimey Diggy, if that's how you see the evidence, I wouldn't want to be on trial for my life with you on the jury ! Other than saying "No friendly answers, knew it", the OP hasn't displayed what you say. And even that answer was, if not justified, at least understandable given that Armistice was, in his own amusing and inimitable way, pretty sarcastic with the guy. If anyone read around some threads here, they might not expect friendly answers and if they posted a question and got a sarky reply, that would seem to bear out their initial impression.

I don't think it unreasonable to expect a novice to read the available FAQs, stickies, etc.,

I didn't say it was. I agree.

to gain enough general knowledge to know what questions to ask.

There I slightly disagree. Sometimes, yes, what you read will furnish you with enough simply put general knowledge to be able to formulate a question. MIDI, as you point out is a very broad subject and not something easilly grasped. There have been a number of experienced recordists that don't even understand it.
Besides, the questions the OP kept asking demonstrated that they had been doing some reading but had reached a point where they didn't understand what they were reading. And the main crux of the OP's point was essentially, "why do I need MIDI ?". In other words, "am I missing out by not having it ? Why ?".
Sometimes a newbie doesn't articulate to our satisfaction, but that's because they're attempting to gain knowledge on something shadowy and nebulous that they're not even fully aware of yet in language they haven't learned to use or even understand.

 

[T Sat]

You need something to plug your midi cable from your synth or whatever you are going to use. You can get an adaptor relatively cheap so you plug your midi cable into the adapter. Or you can get the midi in and out built in your audio interface. I use the EIE Pro of Akai not that expensive and I get a good specs for an audio interface and the midi (plus it has 3 USB ports that you can hook up hard drives etc to, really handy). Of course you also need a audio recording program that supports midi. That really is it, it is not like the old days where you had a lot of crap to sort out. I use Samplitude for software.

 

[diggy_dude]

Blimey Diggy, if that's how you see the evidence, I wouldn't want to be on trial for my life with you on the jury !

Sorry, Grim, but I thought a few of the explanations offered on the first two pages were quite clear. If, by the second page, one is still asking a rudimentary question like "is MIDI the data going from the controller to the synth?", IMHO that sort of demonstrates that one hasn't read a single word about what MIDI is. Moreover, the OP had multiple threads going about buying several expensive pieces of hardware at the same time he was asking about MIDI controllers in this thread. Perhaps I jumped to the wrong conclusion, but it appeared to me that he was itching to run out and blow upwards of a grand on gear that, by his own admission, was beyond his comprehension. For all I or he or anyone else knows, he may have only needed a controller and whatever came with his DAW. Several of the replies early on from myself and others were intended to get the OP to slow down and digest the available information before committing to a potentially costly mistake. (Reviewing his posts just now, I see he had already persuaded himself to buy a Maschine while he was still asking if he needed MIDI in this thread.) Yes, learning something new is hard. It's even harder to learn if your attention is focused on making a shopping list rather than learning. My apologies if I've offended anyone, but I found talking to the OP to be exasperating, rather like talking to a wall.