What to do Next?

[amarcott]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum and have been looking around trying to figure out recording. I have skimmed through much of Tweak's guide online, and lots of the information I'm seeing looks very useful and I am eager to dive in. The only question is: Should I?

Before you jump to answering the question, I would like to give you a background of my musical experiences and exposures to help you justify your answer and give me the best advice possible.

First, I am the young age of 16, and have been exposed to music for most of my life. My uncle played the piano and i really wanted to play the guitar, but my parents got me into piano, telling me it was best to learn it first (not sure if this is true, although when I play the guitar, I sort of visualize it as a piano).

Here I am now, having around 9 years of experience with the piano, and doing pretty good. I started guitar about a year ago, but didnt really get into it because i have been busy with high school sports. I quit lessons for piano and guitar in the fall for the first time in my life since starting both. I still play the piano all the time, but most of it is just contemporary songs that I have learned over the past year, and I play the same 10 songs every day for about 30 minutes, considering it "practice". I rarely play the guitar, considering the fact that i didn't practice much during my private lesson time and I was always busy.

Off and on, I get some "inspiration" to get better at these instruments, and I end up buying a couple of books to read, but never finish them. I also have managed to make up my own songs on the piano, but i have little knowledge of music theory to back up anything other than the fact that i threw a couple notes together and they coincidentally sound good. I know, I should have a large understanding of music theory, having had 9+ years of musical experience, but i didn't get much out of it, except for being able to read and memorize songs and sheet music. I still consider myself a good pianist though, considering I play very complex pieces.

It is frustrating to say that having had this experience with lessons, i still could not tell you what notes are in a scale, etc. I would like to be able to make up songs using music theory, not just messing around on the piano. I would also enjoy being able to play my favorite songs just by listening to them, but not just guessing the notes and hoping it is the right one. It could be the fact that my piano teacher did not stress these music theory concepts enough while i took lessons. It could also be my fault, considering my "practice sessions" consist of playing the same few songs like "Clocks" by Coldplay, or "100 Years" by Five for Fighting. I also admit that I didn't practice as much and was not dedicated enough to try something new.

How can i break free of this habit and expand my musical knowledge? Should I find a new teacher, or, perhaps, take music theory lessons? I recently met a guy at school who plays the drums and has heard me play my usual songs and thinks i am really good, but am i really good enough to join a band? I am still good at playing sheet music and complex pieces, but i don't understand the theory behind it.

I told this guy that i have a "recording studio" in my house, which I kind of do (remember this spark of inspiration i was talking about?). He seemed pretty excited. I have a nice keyboard, some guitars, amps, a good computer (it was very expensive, lets just say that), and some other necessities for your basic music room. Am I ready for this? Recording sounds fun, especially with all of the endless creative projects my friend and i could work on, but is my musical experience too meager, even though i have "9 years of experience", if you know what i mean.

Any suggestions? Should i go for it? What do i have to work on? Anything, please! Are 9 years of piano lessons worth anything, even though i still am vague on the theory part?

I apologize for the long thread, or if it is in the wrong category. I just really had to get that out there to see what the public has to say about my musical experiences. I am a new member and any constructive criticism, referrals, or anything is appreciated.

 

[The Cancers]

You could dedicate the rest of your life to music.
Drop out of school, just play play play, write record, read and play some more.
60 years from now, you still wouldn't know "enough."
This particular hobby/timekiller/career/obsession is as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.
When I was your age I was recording on a hand me down computer straight into the stock soundcard with the crappy little computer mic that came with the system.
Nothing I ever recorded sounded good, and if I had stopped to consider whether I was "good enough," I would have quit years before I ever got halfway decent.
But, though nothing I ever recorded when I first started sounded good, everything I recorded sounded better than the last thing I'd done.
Sometimes tiny and incremental, sometimes leaps and bounds.
Some of the best bands I know are built around a couple of guys who started playing together in high school. There's a whole lot to be said for years of experience together.
Even if you guys end up going off to different colleges or something, the experience you'll take from having worked on music with other people is invaluable.
Things to do in embarking on this project:
1) You should write out a list of all the songs you know really well. Your drummer should do the same (or at least write out a song of equivalent length of songs he wants to play). Anybody else you get involved should do the same. Then everybody should listen to and listen to and listen to those songs until everybody knows them. Then you practice them. Don't worry about playing in front of people, that'll come later. Just work on learning to play together. If you can't figure out a song by ear, just look up a chord tab online. Chord tabs are usually wrong (or at least incomplete), but since you'll know the song backwards and forwards, you'll be able to hear what's going wrong and try and insert those things that are missing (the tab says it's a C chord, listening to it, you hear there's something else besides just a C major, maybe a seven thrown in, or some sort of movement in the bass line, that sort of thing).
2) Sit down with whoever you're working with and make sure everybody knows and understands how much experience everybody else has. Let your drummer know that, despite your equipment and years of experience, you are absolutely a beginner. If he's excited about the idea of recording, let him be, and make him your partner in this learning experience. Share the resources and knowledge you have found, and spend as much time as you can discussing music and recording and ideas. And write down all your ideas. This will become invaluable as you guys start recording more often, as, if there are two of you who know what you're doing, when it's your turn to lay down a track you won't have to focus on anything except playing your part.
3) Write songs. Write crappy songs about what you had for lunch, write songs about the person who broke your heart that are exactly like the million songs you've already heard about people who've broken other people's hearts. Get everybody involved in the songwriting process. The sooner you get used to sharing input, the easier it will be. And as long as everybody is open to everybody else's ideas, you'll get better and better at writing songs that don't sound like anything else.
4) Don't expect anything to sound awesome right out the gate. Don't expect pro quality tracks. Go out and find some music that doesn't play on the radio. Find indie bands and DIYers who record themselves, and listen to what they do. Some of the most interesting sounds you'll hear come from people who have the same low level equipment you do. When you don't have the resources of a major label recording studio, you have to end up thinking of workarounds and new ideas to make interesting sounds. But it will only make you better.
5) Record everything. As you guys practice, record your sessions. Get as good a sound as you can, but, once again, don't expect pro sounding results. After each practice session, try and sit down and mix together what you've got for about half an hour. This will a) get you better at the whole mixing process and b) help you hear what you're doing wrong in setting up the mics and whatnot. This is absolutely invaluable, because engineering (ie the process of micing to capture the sounds in the room) is the first and one of the biggest steps in getting good sounds.

Man, I wish I could go back and be in your position. You have a whole bunch of time and a big jump on those of us old fogies who found the myriad online resources late. There is nothing I don't love about the recording process. There's nothing I don't love about being in a band and playing music with people and meeting other people who feel the same way. It's an incredible community - I'm more likely to be able to borrow a bass amp for a show from a band I've just met than I am to borrow a cup of sugar from my neighbors of two years.
MOST IMPORTANT RULE:
HAVE FUN HAVE FUN HAVE FUN!
This really is so much fun, as long as you let it be. Just play, man. When you were a kid, that's all you wanted to do was play. That's why they call it playing, because it's supposed to be as much fun as being six and going on adventures through the backyards in your neighborhood.
And give me a shoutout when you make it gigantic.
Also your parents. Don't forget to give them a shoutout too.

 

[mikemorgan]

Wisdom is something that is passed down, and that just about covers it.

 

[amarcott]

Wow. You do not know how reassuring some of these words are to me. I like it when there is someone else telling me the right thing, and not just myself assuming like i always do.

I guess the next step is to find a bassist, right? Thats a tough one...

On a side note: Are there any ways/routines of self-teaching and practicing i could use? How do all of you experienced musicians go about practicing each day? Also, should I get back into lessons or just let my creative side take hold and stay away from them? I am just wary of them anymore, because all it seemed like i did in guitar lessons was go in, play a song on the teacher's stereo from my Ipod, he writes the tab down, and i attempt to play it.

 

[The Cancers]

From the way you describe the lessons you were getting, it sounds like you were getting a whole bunch of the "give a man a fish," and none of the "teach a man to fish."
It comes down to how motivated you are. Theory can be very helpful, especially when trying to communicate musical ideas to other people who also know theory. You said you've been buying books and trying to read them - that's where the motivation comes in. There's something invaluable about taking lessons from a good teacher. But there's nothing a bad teacher can teach you that you can't find somewhere online or in a book. Keep playing, keep practicing, see about taking a couple music theory classes at the local community college. You've had years of lessons, and I'm not gonna tell you you wouldn't benefit from more. But the biggest benefit you get out of those kinds of lessons is just that they force you to practice and improve your skills. If you can do that yourself, then you'd be better served learning about theory, starting to build a skeleton or the frame of a structure to which you can attach all the little pieces of knowledge you've picked up so far.
Really like this particular chord progression in this song? Start to pick up theory and you'll have that "a-ha!" moment where you realize why it works, and then you can do the same sort of thing in a song you're writing without feeling like you're just ripping off a part of something else you liked.

And keep playing. If you only enjoy playing ten songs, then keep playing them. You'll find others, and you'll get tired of playing those, but as long as you are practicing, you are getting better.

 

[amarcott]

Thanks for the advice. Things are beginning to look good in the future.

And give me a shoutout when you make it gigantic.
Also your parents. Don't forget to give them a shoutout too.

Dont worry.

 

[Dogbreath]

AmarcottDude

Don't sweat the small shit.
And it's all small shit.

That's pretty much my life's motto.

I can get my head wrapped up in so much crap...the "what if's" and the "if only" kinda shit that if I worried about that kinda stuff for too long, I'd never get to my goals.

I've been playin guitar for about 30 years and 29 of em with 9 fingers. I chopped off the middle finger on my fret board hand when I was still learnin how to play. So I said screw it and figured out different ways to do chords.
So I still don't know what the chords are called, no clue about theory and barely know my fret board notes.

The point is....sounds like music is a pretty big part of your life.
Cool.
Roll with it.

Even tho I may never make a dime at this. I'll never quit makin music. I can't. It's a part of me and who I am.

And if YOU ever get rich at this, remember yer pal Dogbreath.

 

[Dani Pace]

You sound kind of like me 40 years ago. I never got rich or famous but I did have one hell of a good time and still do. Play music for fun and the love of the art, if you achieve success thats icing on the cake. I never had the luxury of formal lessons, what I did was play with anyone who would play with me and whenever i met someone who knew more than I did, I'd get them to "show" me something. It took years but somehow I managed to accumulate quite a lot of musical knowledge.

 

[TheChikenMaster]

Music is an art. Recording is an art.

 

[bunt]

From the way you describe the lessons you were getting, it sounds like you were getting a whole bunch of the "give a man a fish," and none of the "teach a man to fish."
.

Here's a couple of thoughts for you on the lessons... I think the quote above nails it. First, It sounds like your teachers are lazy. They are giving you the data, so to say, but not teaching you how to get it for yourself, which requires more of them.. and of you, because you will have to think and interpret and project what might be coming next and why it comes next.

That said, I also think you will not regret having had formal lessons. It gives you a solid baseline and will also give you the ability to read music and translate it to your keys or strings for situations where you might need to come in cold and just play the song.. like if you ever get into studio work or if you are a sideman in a band that continuously brings in new material.

I'm going to suggest a different kind of lessons for a while.. more of an informal approach that will familiarize you with "playing by ear". I actually think you should do this on your own, but if you are struggling with where/how to start, and don't currently have the translation capability (from written notes, common chord progressions and the scales ( I think you mentioned this) then you can get somebody to help you do that.
For example someone could sit down with you with your fave CD. Play the song you want to learn and show you how to first figure out what key it's in... then show you how to determine the chords being played... then determine the notes in the solos based upon common scales. (this is presuming you're not going to go after really complicated stuff like freeform jazz or something...) And I don't really know what you know and what you don't know, but I'm talking about real basic things like a 3-chord rock or blues progressions and how to know what's next regardless of the key signature, and how 'basic' chops will use the same patterns for major scales as minor scales, but start on a different fret. You've probably noticed things like a bar chord is just an E chord moving up the neck where your "bar" finger (index) becomes the guitar's nut... so you can play any major chord in the scale just by knowing 1 chord and moving it around...

maybe I'm way off base here... sorry if I am

anywayz, go to your local music store. odds are there will be 10,000 postings for lessons. Call em, ask them about their style and tell them you want to learn to play by ear.. see what comes back. This might prepare you a bit for being in a band where most of the folks don't read music.

Good Luck!
db

 

[amarcott]

Thanks guys. Bunt, you arent way off base, you are really helping. That is kind of the way I am. For example, if i hear a song on the radio, when it gets to the solo, i can tell which notes are possible in coming next in my head, but i dont know the names of the notes or what scale it is in. It's like i have heard that scale, but i dont know the name of it or what it consists of, even though i know what "sound" could come next. Sorry if that example is hard to understand, but its the way i am

I will check around for music lessons and see what comes up.

Another side note: Although i have the lessons on my mind, i would like to get a feel for recording, since i have most of the components to do so. To record my keyboard on my computer, is this how i would do it:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-MO8-88-Key-Music-Production-Synthesizer-Workstation-with-DAW-Control-103573739-i1154116.gc. That is my keyboard. Would i take a MIDI cable to a MIDI interface to my computer, or do you only do that if you are using the sounds on your computer and not the sounds programmed on the keyboard? Sorry if this is a noobie question, its just confusing to me.

 

[The Cancers]

MIDI isn't sound. A midi cable only sends information, so, yes to the second option. MIDI is for if you want to use sounds from an external sound module (be it a separate piece of hardware or a virtual instrument on your computer). You'll need to take the line out from your keyboard if you want the sounds it makes.
That's a nice piece of equipment you got. Makes me think the other stuff you have is probably pretty nice as well. I'll go ahead and take this opportunity to mention one of the most important lessons I've learned in acquiring new musical equipment.
READ THE MANUAL!
I guarantee every single piece of equipment you have that is involved with music recording and production can do something you had no idea it could do. So many reasons to read the manuals. There's so much you'll want to know how to do as you get deeper into recording. If you've read your manuals, you probably still won't know how to do them. However, you will know approximately where in the manual to look to find out how to do them. And then, after you've done them once, you'll know how, and not need to go back to that part of the manual again.
The manuals are your friends! You will really be surprised at how easy it is to impress people just by knowing how to use your equipment.

That may all seem stupid and obvious, but it really is worth your time. Treat those things like your textbooks. They can teach you so much.

 

[bunt]

yeah, what he said!! (Cancers)

run a cord from the line out on your keyboard to the input on your sound card

 

[amarcott]

Alright, I'm pretty clear about the MIDI part now. My sound card only has standard 1/8 inch inputs, so would i have to either

1. buy a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter

or

2. invest in an audio interface (for future use, too)?

 

[amarcott]

Alright.. i found a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter laying around and hooked it up. I have a version of Cubase AI4 or something like that (it came with my keyboard). When i tried to load the program, a message popped up saying something like "Your soundcard does not currently have a driver installed for direct sound input. Recording is not possible." Uh oh. Normally you don't need to update sound card drivers, right? Im looking into it now. Would an audio interface fix this problem, since its not essentially "direct sound input"? Im hoping this does not become a problem.

 

[The Cancers]

Yeah, an audio interface would fix this problem. An interface, along with the other things it does, effectively replaces your soundcard. You record into it, monitor from it, and it does all your AD/DA converting. And, whichever you buy, you're gonna be able to find the most current drivers for it on the company's website, if it doesn't already come with them on a disk.
You've probably already heard that a stock soundcard is no good for recording, for myriad reasons. Whatever. If you can get the up to date drivers for it and get it recording, use it. You'll know when you need to upgrade. And, depending on your financial situation and input needs, there are a lot of really good interfaces out there that are really affordable.

 

[amarcott]

Any suggestions on a good audio interface that isnt too expensive? Right now, i would only be recording either my keyboard or a mic'ed guitar amp. If my drummer decides to start recording drumming, though, i might need more inputs. I'm not too worried about drums right now, but if there is a cheap one that can do the job, im all for it. the ideal audio interface for me would be the PreSonus FirePod if i have to do drums, but are there any others that are just as good or less expensive? They dont need to have that many inputs.

 

[The Cancers]

Read this thread for my thoughts on an interface:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=292964

I've been pimping that firebox because it looks like a great piece of equipment. 4 analog inputs, two of which a mic preamps. You could get a standalone two channel preamp to use with the other two inputs and you'd have four mic preamps which is, in my opinion, plenty to get a great drum sound at home, as long as you have a somewhat decent sounding room.

All in all, I think that Firebox is an excellent beginning interface and, for about $200, a great value.

EDIT-
Just know that, at some point, you probably will want more inputs, so if you can afford it, it might not be a bad idea to start with something like the firepod.
I have a focusrite saffire pro 40, and it has worked great for me. A little more expensive than the firepod, but still in the same price range.

 

[samth3mancgp]

My first simple, and halfway decent Interface was an M-Audio Fast Track Pro. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FastTrackPro/
It has 2 mic/instrument inputs. (it is one of the Neutrik connectors that has mic cable and 1/4" jack on the same plug.) It also has MIDI I/O and 2 stereo outputs.

You can get some cheap but decent Condenser mics to get started. MXL and CAD make great ones for the money.

My first one was the 990 and I still use It to this day. http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-990-Condenser-Microphone-with-Shockmount?sku=273156

I also have these http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-CM217-Condenser-Mic-Buy-One-Get-One-FREE?sku=271324

For your purposes I think the 2 mics would be better to start out with.

M-audio, and MXL and CAD have great, and reliable products for the price. Especially M-audio. I own several things from them and they are flawless. And your keyboard seems to have USB connectivity for use as a MIDI controller or DAW control surface. A keyboard like yours will give you flexibility as a DAW controller for software synthesizers as well as let you use just the audio output on the keyboard. Both ways should yield some pretty good sounds. Happy Thanksgiving!