What to do about my client, Part II

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chessrock

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Alright, so I just got done tracking vocals on 5 songs for my client.

I hate to sound cold, but this dude's voice is pretty bad. And unfortunately, that's not a matter of taste or opinion. No sense of tone, constantly out of tune, flat, lifeless, unispired, etc.

Anyway, I don't know who ever encouraged him to sing in the first place. But that is his lifelong dream, and if he doesn't become the next singing sensation, then I'm afraid he will be absolutely crushed.

I guess my question is . . . do I do the honest thing - and probably what will be good for him in the long run - and tell him he should seek voice lessons or simply give up on the idea of singing? Or do I do the nice thing, and try to avoid the subject.

It's gotten to the point where avoiding the subject is going to be difficult. I just received this email from him, and here are some exerpts (apparently, he talked to some friends who gave him some critique) :

"My vocals were described as flat, mono sounding, monotone, lifeless, without statement, without highs or lows, not sounding loud enough etc. This is something that I too felt was a problem. I think it has to do with many things such as the mic, the levels going out of the mic, the levels that I hear within the headphones, the compression, the fact that it is recorded in
digital and pasted to make both left and right tracks.

How can we make my voice sound alive, with full statement, with enunciation, with dynamics, etc.????? How can we make it sound more impacting with roaring sound quality???

Can we try recording on ANALOG????"
 
LOL!!You don't have the "Magic Vox Box" by "Altuna" dam its the latest thing! The latest model has ENUNCIATION PLUS...!:D Tell the guy the truth..Tell him take vocal lessons.. tell him to get a porta studio and you will teach him to run it,then he can practice critical vocals..And maybe someday he will be ready,but you just don't want to steal his cash recording him now..

Don
 
Chessrock, it's not your job to give this guy a reality check, just cut him loose!!! You are wasting his time and he is wasting yours. Put it like this-" I can't get the sound that you want or that I want. I would be arrogant to assume that I can't get that sound because of you, it just as well could be something I'm doing, but this is not working. I suggest you try a couple takes in the B or C room of a big time pro studio, and see if they can do a better job." Then send him to somebody you hate! Give it up Chessrock. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and you can't make this guy give up his overactive fantasy life. It may be all he has- get out while you still can, and don't take any of his money-Richie
 
That's actually a really good idea, Richard, when you think of it.

I could tell him we should complete all of his overdubs and track all the drums here - something we haven't done yet, as everything has been recorded to a drum machine so far. Yea, I know it's backwards, but he's been having trouble locating a drummer for his project. :)

So then I should suggest that after we get done with all the music tracks over here, he can take his .wav files to a big-name studio and complete his vocals there.

That way, I still get a little more work out of him . . . and someone else gets the blame for his vocals souding rotten. Sounds like a win-win to me.
 
"My vocals were described as flat, mono sounding, monotone, lifeless, without statement, without highs or lows, not sounding loud enough etc. This is something that I too felt was a problem. I think it has to do with many things such as the mic, the levels going out of the mic, the levels that I hear within the headphones, the compression, the fact that it is recorded in
Click to expand...
Just tell him that this all gets taken care of in the Mastering phase. :)
 
Chess,

I think you may have found the best way out of this, however another consideration.............rather than telling him straight out that he "sucks", suggest he looks for a vocal coach who has the ability to teach him necessary mic techniques for recording, then that person has the pleasure of telling him the truth OR actually teaching him to sing properly.

:cool:
 
It's true--as an engineer you have to take a very balanced approach to the "talent". Dealing with people who think the problem lies in the equipment, not themselves is every engineer's nightmare.

It's not your job to be his vocal coach or to stroke his ego, but rather try a few things to placate him as best you can (assuming you value his business)--such as "ok, let's try a different mic with no compression" and see if he likes it any better. Chances are he will not, but at least you've made him feel like his opinions are being heard, and that's the most important thing. Don't ever tell him his voice is "bad", but after a few tries with different setups he would hopefully get the hint that a dictation coach is what he needs.
 
What I do is to get the money up front and if they sound like someone stepped on the cats balls, oh well. Unless I'm asked to be the "producer", once I figure out someone is a slug, I just push the buttons, smile and nod knowingly at them and excuse myself for a bathroom break every thirty minutes so I can do 7-10 bong hits.
 
Another idea:

Ask him to bring a reference CD of someone whom he thinks sings in a similar style, or someone who's style he would like to emulate. Maybe you can figure out what he is going for and help him get there, once you have a reference.

There have been many hit records made with flat semi-monochromatic vocals. For example, Lou Reed's "Take a Walk On the Wild Side". If he really can't sing, maybe emulating a "talking" style of singing could work for him.

In any event, one thing to try is make sure his mouth is as close to the microphone as is physically possible. The proximity effect will add a depth and intimacy to his voice that may help with the "lifelessness".
 
OMG track rat thats the funniest thing I've ever heard.

As far as your problem chess-I wouldnt tell him he sucks-but I would point out that "monotone, lifeless and without statement" are things that are under his control and not yours. If he's unhappy with his headphone mix or vocal sound he needs to speak up and tell you WHILE YOUR TRACKING not after his friends point it out to him and he decides to email you after the fact.

Oh well. Singers. What can you do.
 
If the guy is ignorant to it, then I dont think you should bother.

If he can hear it, you can give him pointers and he'll respect you for it and always remember the vocal lesson you gave him.

Its amazing how much one can learn in a single session, or off one tip. If the worst comes to the worst, find a singer he is trying to sound like or he sounds like and play that Cd. The tendency to subconsciously immitate that proffesional sound in the short term should overcome and make things a little bit better.

If he does not care, dont bother. I know a guy who CANT carry a tune for anything who has three albums. He just doesnot care.In that situation, dont hurt his feelings.
 
Well, it would be one thing if the guy actually took vocal lessons, practiced night and day, read books on vocal technique, or started singing with a choire to refine his skills. I just irritates me when people think they can just go and sing like a rock star and skip all the steps in between that it takes to get there.

Some people have "a gift," but those people are few and far between.

I feel bad for this guy in a lot of ways, because he has some difficult lessons ahead of him. But he needs to learn this stuff himself. In order to get from point A to point D, you just might have to work your butt off to get there. And there are no shortcuts areound points B and C. Otherwise every one would be doing it.

I also feel bad for him that this person whom he supposedly trusts to be blunt and honest with him hasn't been able to tell him. And believe me, this isn't an exaggeration - it is painful to listen to him.

The silver lining is that he has some real potential on the guitar. If he were to take lessons and practice obsessively for the next 3 years, he could really be something special, and I'm not kidding! As it stands he has basically no formal instruction under his belt and rarely practices . . . but I just keep hearing these moments of brilliance come out of that guitar of his . . . but then they quickly go away (stuff you can't teach), because he just hasn't the practice under his belt.
 
I would tell him the truth strait out and unless you did compress the crap out of it you could automate volume swells cycleing every 4 measures. . . try a bit of flang I like it on vocals that are boring. or you can try putting on two different reverb effects so you get the crazy reverb and a flang sound with volume swells don't use any compression and if he is totally out of tune try useing a pitch shifter to bring the entire track closer or run multiple tracks at different pitches at different pannings.

but most importantly tell him that mics don't have anything to do with it because he'll look like an idiot live
 
Sign him up for American Idol II and let that mean guy tell him he sucks :D
 
It sounds to me like that scene in Spinal Tap when David's girlfriend comes into the studio and says "it needs more doubly".
 
great thread.....reminds me of those time I was (and those that I will be) in the same situation.

I once had a band coming in talking about doing some recordings and these guys were talking like the had been pro's for years, I mean, they really made sense..untill they started to play. After the singer had layed down his guidetrack, I smiled at him, laughed and said..ok let's try to be serious now. ????
Ok, you pay per hour so I actually don't care, but we have to get going some come on...
???? but it was a guide you said
Yeah, but that doesn't mean you can't take it serious, I mean if the others have to play with this on their headphones they will never get it down.
Why's that?
Well, for one you have to try to sing IN tune.
nobody told me that before
Well, that's logical not?
What is in tune..should it be lower or higher?
You are the singer aren't you
yes
And this is how you normally sing?
Well, I didn't sing before last week
But you said you were the singer?
they asked me because they didn't have a real singer, and they needed one for the recording session
And why did they pick you
I was the only one who dared to sing in front of a mic

Damn, that was a long session. As soon as this happened I sat down with them, told them this made totally no sense at all. We had two options.
1. Forget about the whole thing and come back when it makes some sense
2. Just go ahead and don't mention anything about it anymore. This is what they want, this is how its done. Period.

Too band for me they opted the last. When the session was done they were so satisfied they said that they would let it hear to everybody, and mention that I did a great job at recording it. Within 24 hours we relocated the studio and went further under different names.
 
It also sounds like whoever listened to the recording also didn't want to hurt the guy's feelings, so instead they'll say something like "it needs more EQ!".
 
If he is happy with the sounds of the other instruments, then I agree with recording them all, and leaving vocals for last, with the out being that he could take them to another studio and do whatever he wants. This way you still get paid.

Then, I do think that you should steer him in the right direction. Let the guy in on the secret that everyone else knows. He is terrible. If he is stand-offish, well, he is a lost cause. Perhaps he may not really know, and will take it well.

Ask him to sing live in front of his friends. Takes away the equipment end of it.

I am taking voice lessons now, I sure as hell want to hear the bad news now, rather than after recording or performing. But I always thought my voice sucked anyway, so I am coming from a different point of view. ;)
 
Adam... maybe you should sit down....

I'm afraid I've got some really bad news for you, and as a friend, I thought you should know....:D :p ;)
 
:mad: well, it must be the mics, or the reverb, or the gum i was chewing yesterday, i had a cold 3 months ago, my parents were deaf, i'm deaf, i was a latchkey kid...besides, I am an 'artist' and you wouldn't know pure genuis when you heard it anyway;)


p.s. we are no longer friends:D
 
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