what the f#*k???

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blakpuc

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Hello, I'm new and looking to start recording my band. Our setup is this.. drums, bass, guitar and vox, for the most part. I am looking into either a Roland 1680 or Tascam 788 and will probably be using shure beta 57 and beta 58s. Besides mics, cables, stands, and the recorder what else do I need? Are there comparable Hard Disk recorders that have all XLR inputs? What is the best way to convert from XLR to 1/4 inch? Do I need preamps ? Do I need a DI for every (mic'd) channel?
And I thought programming my pronto was time consuming....
Thanks in advance
 
Hey Blacpuc.
I don't know any answers to any of your questions, except the Pre-Amp.
Yes, you'll need a Pre-Amp.

I'm gonna listen in with ya if ya don't mind, cuz ya asked alot of good questions.
Man, I thought all I needed to do was buy Rolands VS840GX and a cable or two, get the guys together and have a few demos in a week or so. Yeah, sure, dream on...
I bought all my crap two months ago and still haven't gotten all the extra parts to make it happen.
Just want ya to know ya ain't alone.

Good luck with your dreams.
 
That's a complicated question. To answer it is gonna take cash. The short answer is you want a sound card with at least 8 inputs (use the search function and you'll get lots of ideas on some brands to check out) and a mixer that has either direct channel outputs or at the very least channel inserts that can be used as direct outs to feed signal to the above mentioned sound card. Use the search function and there's days of reading on cards, mixers and of course multi-track recording software on which to base your choices. Get your check book out.:D
 
What is the best way to convert from XLR to 1/4 inch?
Click to expand...
Check out your local equipment retailer. An XLR to 1/4" adaptor usually works.
 
Don't listen to Track Rat - he thinks you want to do computer recording. :D

Here are links to the two machines you mentioned:

http://www.rolandus.com/PRODUCTS/MI/MI_VS.HTM

http://www.tascam.com/products/porta788/index.cfm


The Roland doesn't have any XLR ins (and why all those RCA ins?).
Dunno bout the Tascam - but if you click on the PDF link at the bottom of the page, you can find out.

No, I don't know of any hard disk recorders that have all XLR ins - it's normal for them to have two, and the rest are 1/4". Yes, you need a preamp for every mic you run to your recorder, but hard disk recorders have them built into every channel you can record to, so you don't have to buy extras.

You'll need headphones if you're planning to overdub.

You'll need something good to listen to playbacks and mix on. Headphones don't make it. Speakers, especially dedicated monitors, do.

If you wanna make CDs, you'll need a CD burner.

Finally, you'll need a lot more information than you've got now. Stick around here, do lots of searches, and don't spend your money until you know what you're doing.

Easy, huh? :D
 
You could consider the dinosaur known as the adat. 1 machine and board and your ready to rumble. If your not interested and you know anyone who wants to sell one of them dinosaurs for around 200 bucks let me know, running or not, dead or alive
 
Ive seen a few at 400.00 asking price so maybe 350.00 is a possibility. plenty of alesis digital mixers in the pawn shops for 299.00.
 
I say forget the Roland, why because all Roland digital recorders like the one you mentioned, uses *data compression*. Data compression compresses the audio into a smaller file so you can fit more audio minutes on you hard disk. There's one catch to this; data compression screws up your sound. I assume you are looking into digital recorders to put out a clear and crisp sound right, well if that's true then data compression can be a your worst nightmere.

I recommend the Tascam 788 that you mentioned, but even better than that, a Korg. I don't know model #'s, but any Korg stand along digital recorder is great, not just for the money but for the quality.

You definitly need a mic preamp. I say either the PreSonus Blue Tube (2 channel, $160), or the Art MP (1 channel, $100). The PreSonus gives you a better value for your money.

You can buy a mic cable that has an XLR cable and on the other side it has a 1/4 cable, so you don't even need a $15 adapter.

A great Bass DI is the SansAmp Bass Driver DI. It emulates a tube bass rig for $190. I use this sucker and sounds damn good. Another Bass DI emulator is the Line 6 POD BASS. It has cabanet emulations, 16 effects (even a compressor), and an EQ for $350. Keep in mind the SansAmp only has one emulation, but sounds damn good, the presence knob is killer! I don't know how THe POD sounds, I never tried that stinking thing.
 
vs1880lets cut the crap

frank_1 said:
I say forget the Roland, why because all Roland digital recorders like the one you mentioned, uses *data compression*. Data compression compresses the audio into a smaller file so you can fit more audio minutes on you hard disk. There's one catch to this; data compression screws up your sound. I assume you are looking into digital recorders to put out a clear and crisp sound right, well if that's true then data compression can be a your worst nightmere.

I recommend the Tascam 788 that you mentioned, but even better than that, a Korg. I don't know model #'s, but any Korg stand along digital recorder is great, not just for the money but for the quality.

You definitly need a mic preamp. I say either the PreSonus Blue Tube (2 channel, $160), or the Art MP (1 channel, $100). The PreSonus gives you a better value for your money.

You can buy a mic cable that has an XLR cable and on the other side it has a 1/4 cable, so you don't even need a $15 adapter.

A great Bass DI is the SansAmp Bass Driver DI. It emulates a tube bass rig for $190. I use this sucker and sounds damn good. Another Bass DI emulator is the Line 6 POD BASS. It has cabanet emulations, 16 effects (even a compressor), and an EQ for $350. Keep in mind the SansAmp only has one emulation, but sounds damn good, the presence knob is killer! I don't know how THe POD sounds, I never tried that stinking thing.
Click to expand...
 
Re: vs1880lets cut the crap

rocky outcrop said:
Click to expand...

I have had a vs 1880 for 3 months now ,originaly purchased for recording sound track music for the Queensland theater company .Ihad only the machine and 2 sm 58's and an un named mic of similar build. I never once used any pre amp or external effects just the machine and some experimentation. first i just started with kick snare and over head used some of the mic simulaters (?) and low i had my drum tracks no stuffing around just plug in and play. then as you do i did my bass tracks again I just miked up an amp (gk 800R) I spent my time getting my sound then just went for it and what i heard come out of the speaker box is what I heard when i played it back. I wont bore you with the rest of the story because its all the same.
now i'm not saying that it's not good all of this stuff that we can get hold of now days but I still think that you should use the less is more approach along with the if it sounds good then it sounds good. yeah we all know that we can make anything sound "better " but if it aint broke don't fix it,worry about what you need and nothing will get done ,use what you have until you can get somthing else these machines are great .

if you think that you must have a pre amp then look for old reel to reels and use them for your pre amp I recently befreinded an old revox with no life in the transport but the rest works and have used it to great effect. anyway now I just sound like an old man rambling on about the old days and how they don't make 'em like they used to and how in my day and if......................
 
I not saying that the Roland is useless garbage. It's not. I know it can sound good, I heard some demos on it. I'm just saying that digital recorders w/out data compression will sound lightly better. For example, if your making an mp3 at 128 kbps, and then make the same one but at 120 kbps, which one will sound better, the 128 kbps one! There might not be a HUGE difference but there is a difference, and if you ask me I would rather spend my $1,000 and whatever dollars on a unit that will not use data compression at any level.

My 2 pennies worth...:D
 
Thanks for all the response and advice.
I am now looking into the Korg D1600, looks nice and I think it will suit my needs perfectly, however I am confused, (remember I'm new) It does not compress data, which is supposedly sonically superior, however does that differ from compression of say the vocal track to get it to stand out, or compression of the bass to get it to lay in the track??? If I got the D1600 would I need an external compressor?Or are the two totally unrelated?
I know so little, I feel naked and vulnerable.
 
blakpuc said:
Or are the two totally unrelated?
Click to expand...

Yes, totally unrelated. (sort of)

Data compression is numbers, making your stored audio data fit into a smaller space.

Sound compression is what you're referring to with the vocals and bass.

A data file (containing your audio, presumably a .wav file) would be the same size (essentially) for a four minute song whether or not you used an outboard (or built-in) sound compressor.

If your unit uses data compression, it can fit more music on the disk (at the price of some sound and performance (speed) loss).

Queue
 
But the sound compressor does take away from the overall volume of the track so less of the word length is used and that does result in less track data. but thats kind of irrevelent.
;)
 
I saw that one coming...

I knew someone was gonna make that remark, and carefully inserted the word (essentially) into my post.

But seriously, isn't a word the same length whether it is all 1's or 0's or a mixture?

Queue
 
blakpuc, I strongly recommend that you buy a compressor for bass and vocals. I would recommend FMR's "RNC". The RNC is a $175 compressor that is comparable to $600-800 compressors. We all love the RNC here at the BBS forums.

You can get one of those babies at Mercenary music.

Link: Mercenary Music Store by fletcher
 
as far as compressors go, I would need two if I wanted to simultaneously record bass and vox, correct? I noticed that the Korg D1600 does have onboard sound compressors, are they inferior to the RNC or is the advantage of the RNC its placement in the signal chain? thanks again...
 
Can the Korg compress what you're recording, or can it only do it in the mix afterward?
 
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