WHAT TAPES TO USE

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WHAT LENGTH TAPES I SHOULD USE WITH 414 MK2! HOW MANY BEATS WOULD I BEABLE TO RECORD ON TAPE? I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I'M A SUPER NEW COMER TO THIS HOMERECORDING THING. O YOU MIGHT THINK THIS IS A DUMB ? BUT..IF I RECORDED OVER A SONG ON A OLD TAPE WOULD I BEABLE TO BRING IT BACK SOME WAY WITH A 4TRACK? I NEED SOME FEED BACK A.S.A.P.!!!!!!
 
1) When you record over something (on mag tape) it's gone. Unless, of course, you're the NSA or CIA.

2) The tape speed the 414 uses is 2 X normal. So, when you're buying tapes, the effective length of whatever tape you buy is the length per side divided by two.
For example, a 90-minute cassette has 45 minutes per side, so it will be good for around 22.5 minutes in your 414.

I would recommend using 90-minute or shorter tapes. Most of the portastudios are made for optimal use with chrome (type II) tapes of 90 minutes length, if I'm not mistaken.

Basically, buy whatever length of tape you need. Usually when I've recorded for people I've used each tape for at most two songs (makes it much easier to find things if you use a tape for ever song).

TDK also sells short tapes for use in portastudios; They're the equivalent of the SA-X I think, and come in 5, 10, 15, and 30 minute lengths (that I've seen so far).
 
I have the previous 414 - I wish it had the XLR inputs that you got on the MKII. I'm going from memory here, but I'm 95% sure the manual recommends using 60 minutes or shorter. I know they recommend using Type II (or high bias, or chrome, or chromium dioxide - you'll might see any of those names on the tape). I've always used 60 minute Type II tapes on mine, but I've had a tough time finding them lately.

Dex is right about using one tape per song. I started that after a tape got chewed up and I lost three songs I was still working on. This way if I lose a tape I only lose one song (been lucky so far).
 
yeah, the TDK tapes are good. The short tapes are called SM-10, SM-20 etc...and the SA-X type are SM-X. I believe shorter tapes are a bit thicker, so are less likely to snap. I use 60 min tapes and I have never had a prob (1000s of hours)...but shorter is good. Some folks like to use 110s and stuff but that tape is thinner. Anyway, I have had trouble from Maxells so I stick to TDK religiously for any tape needs!
 
I may be mistaken, but most tapes (i believe TDK is included) use pretty much the same thickness after 60 min tapes. So 90 min tapes are thinner than 60, but 30 are the same thickness as 60.
 
nope, your right nathan, 60 min and shorter all have the same tape stock. 90 miin and above is a bit thinner.

As far as sound, all the type II tapes are pretty much equal, however with the better and more expensive tapes (SM and SM-X)you have less noise (tape hiss)

-jhe
 
Yep, once you have recorded over something on tape, it's gone forever. Multitrackers can do some neat things, but magically restoring tapes isn't one of them.

Here are some tips for getting the most out of cassette multitrackers:

1. ALWAYS use brand new tape. Don't try to save time and money by taping over old tapes.

2. Use a GOOD brand of tape.

3. Use HIGH-BIAS tapes (type II, chrome).

4. Use 60 minute tapes. You'll get about 15 minutes of recording time on them, and they are the most durable, which is essential.

5. Make sure all the levels are good and LOUD when recording on tape. It will pretty much eradicate the tape hiss problem (better signal to noise ratio).

6. When bouncing tracks, ALWAYS monitor with loudspeakers, NEVER headphones. ANY mixing should ALWAYS be done with loudspeakers. Use your stereo, use whatever, but never headphones for mixing. And ALWAYS go over the mix at least half a dozen times before commiting to a bounce.

7. Sell your 4 track and get at least a digital 8 track. Just trust me on this one, I know what I'm talking about. If you care at all about ANYTHING in life, you'll get rid of the 4 track and get at least an 8 track.... DIGITAL!
 
what tapes to use

LarryLurex,
You were doing great til you hit that "D" word. We will all probably end up digital sooner or later because we have no choice. But why rush? There is nothing wrong with analog. A person should spend their money on what they need (more tracks) not the current fad or hype or "latest" technology. Of course everyone needs to make their own decision. Just make it a well-informed one.

-woob (Larry. I like that name. So did my Mom.)
 
Taking cues from the 414mk manual I stocked up of TDK 60 minute tapes and found them to "capture" better than the 90 minutes I was first using.
Here's an additional question.
I've had a little experience with reel to reel machines and the engineer i was working with ran the tapes quite slow saying that the slower the tape passes the head, the more data is imprinted on the tape for higher quality recordings.

Currently I run my 414 at the slowest speed, not only does it give me more time on the tape but I think it makes a better master. Thoughts?
 
blipndub said:
I've had a little experience with reel to reel machines and the engineer i was working with ran the tapes quite slow saying that the slower the tape passes the head, the more data is imprinted on the tape for higher quality recordings.

Currently I run my 414 at the slowest speed, not only does it give me more time on the tape but I think it makes a better master. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
:eek: Yeah - that "engineer" has NO IDEA what they're talking about... the slower the tape speed THE POORER the sound quality. The reason for this is simple, as speed increases, the tape passes quickly over the heads, allowing more tape (and therefore more particles) to capture the signal.

In a 4-track unit, it's even more important to keep that tape speed as high as possible since the format's sound quality is already somewhat limited.

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound

[Edited by bvaleria on 12-21-2000 at 12:34]
 
Hey that makes sense as the less "imprints" on a section of tape the less clutter. Jeez, maybe that's why so much of my recordings sound muddy. D'oh!
 
One other little piece of advise I offer a newcomer to home recording that I came across myself. With a 4 track, when you bounce tracks (say 1,2&3 to track 4) after you've finally and carefully balanced the tracks to get your 1 combined track, always clear tracks 1,2 &3 before you reuse them (ie put tracks 1,2 &3 in RECORD and make a complete pass before you reuse them). Reason; If you don't, you might produce (from punching in & out) "remnants" of your old tracks which, while they are still part of the song and will blend in, the difference in volume between the bounced track and the remnant will produce an undesireable jump in volume for however long the remnant is. I don't know if I've explained this very clearly, but trust me on this, not clearing your previously used pre-bounced tracks will produce an effect that I assure you, you will find undesireable.
Voclizr
 
This is what I do with tapes and my 414 (which I still like to use, even though I have a good computer setup). I buy bricks of TDK SA60's on sale at the local Kmart, Pay n Save, and places like that, and I use'em freely, both as like a scratch pad for experiments and for honest efforts. When I really want to capture something special that I've worked out, I use the TDK SM tapes that I buy at big music stores - the ones that are labeled as multitrack masters. Are they any better? I dunno, but it makes me feel better.

Then I buy some of those bulk cassettes at 15 or 30 minutes that you see for sale in a lot of the national catalogs like Musicians Feind (nyuk) and mix down to those for distribution.

And I try to record at as hot a signal as I can, and keep those heads and stuff cleaned as often as I can stand to smell that rubber cleaner!
 
I suggest using TDK Pro(type II high bias), which are designed for multitracking studio masters (of course the pros don't use cassete tapes to record, but it's clever marketing). Make sure you use lengths of 60 minutes or under as the Tascam's pitch control works by stretching the tape, and lengths of over 60 minutes are too thin, and will be overstretched. The other TDK brands will work, but keep in mind that they sell these to people dubbing their favorite CD for their car's cassete deck, not for seperate multitracking purposes. Good luck!
 
Voclizr said:
One other little piece of advise I offer a newcomer to home recording that I came across myself. With a 4 track, when you bounce tracks (say 1,2&3 to track 4) after you've finally and carefully balanced the tracks to get your 1 combined track, always clear tracks 1,2 &3 before you reuse them (ie put tracks 1,2 &3 in RECORD and make a complete pass before you reuse them). Reason; If you don't, you might produce (from punching in & out) "remnants" of your old tracks which, while they are still part of the song and will blend in, the difference in volume between the bounced track and the remnant will produce an undesireable jump in volume for however long the remnant is. I don't know if I've explained this very clearly, but trust me on this, not clearing your previously used pre-bounced tracks will produce an effect that I assure you, you will find undesireable.
Voclizr
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was me, though I don't remember from way back in 2000. I was in the midst of a 12 year writer's slump and not recording at all at that time between 1993 and 2005. I picked it back up in 2005 having purchased a Zoom MRS 802 workstation. I've gone through alot of changes even since then. I remember being active here a bit in 2007 or 8. Back in 2005, when I got the Zoom I swore up and down I'd never use my PC for recording music. I've evolved since then to using the PC exclusively. In fact, I recently bought a laptop dedicated to recording.
Regarding my above post from 2000. Now you don't have to listen for the "remnants". You can see them in the wavforms!
Thanks for the "Welcome back".
:) JB

EDIT-So sorry! this was in response to a reply in my (re)joining in 2010. Who the hell uses tape anymore anyway!

:) JB
 
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