JimmyS1969
MOODerator
I feel left out because I didn't get a GT quote. Very sad....very very sad...
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I'll do you one for a reasonable fee.........
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
I'll do you one for a reasonable fee.........
How many quid?
Did I even spell that right? I am an American that slipped through the educational system, by resourceful means.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
And that's why I don't do the mono step...
I was just trying to explain why some like to do it. When in mono, the overlap of frequencies/levels becomes more obvious and getting it sorted more critical. So, the mono step can help you do that...help you identify problems that might not be as obvious with things spread out wide in stereo.
Those things may not always be a "problem" in stereo as they are in mono, but you can still use the mono step to identify and address more extreme stuff rather than just let it eat up your stereo spread unhindered.
That said...it's still a different thing...stereo and mono...and IMO, I don't think people really are listening in mono all that much. If they are, it's probably on some "compromised" system...something that is probably doing more harm to your mix than you might have done by NOT checking in mono.
You can take this further....
Like why mix on a stellar studio rig if people are using iPods and compressed MP3 files to listen to your mixes?
Why not just mix with an iPod?
R
RAMI
Guest
I don't think it's that. When I said "If you walk 200 feet away from your speakers, etc...." obviously that was an exaggeration, but I think we do hear things in mono in more ways than just having a mono system. As soon as you get up go a few feet from your desk, or to go get something from the closet, or listening in the kitchen while your music`s playing in the living room, there is no more stereo spread at that point. You could be listening to "Revolver" and you won`t be able to tell that Ringo`s drums and a tambourine are coming out of the left speaker while the rest of the band is coming out of the right. So, we listen in "mono"more than it may seem.
I see the smiley, so I'm not sure if you're serious. But, if you are, it's no a fair comparison. There's nothing wrong with checking your mixes on Ipod, just like there's nothing wrong with checking your mix in mono. But I don't think anyone's saying the ONLY mix in mono.Like why mix on a stellar studio rig if people are using iPods and compressed MP3 files to listen to your mixes?
Why not just mix with an iPod?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
You are right about that, and I wasn't suggesting that the stereo *image* stays the same no matter where you are in the room. I did specifically say that the image will move/shift.
The point I was making is that mono signal is mono signal...but stereo signal doesn't become mono signal just 'cuz you moved out of the sweet spot. The left speaker will be putting out different information still, and same with the right, and those things will hit the room differently (and be heard differently) than pure mono. That's why people have said they can still hear the mix elements coming from different points (though not the perfect stereo L/R image)....where as mono will always be a single point source for all elements.
I was being facetious...but the main point was that we can get caught up trying to mix for every possible format or system that people might listen to/on, and we will never be able to pull it off...so you might as well just mix for yourself and your studio system, though yeah, nothing wrong with checking mixes in other places...we all do that.
I don't mix for the car...but I'll check it in the car or on my small stereo system or the computer desktop speakers...and while I still focus on the studio monitor mix as my final mix, those other "checks" provide some feedback about things...but I've seen where people get really hung up about perfect car mixes or whatnot...and that's a bad thing to do, IMHO.
R
RAMI
Guest
Right. I agree with that.
Yeah, me too. I don't take my mixes out to the car or play them on other sound systems. Or, I should say, I don't make it a point to do that. I trust my monitoring sustem and room. I know that if it sounds good here, I'm not worried about something suddenly jumping out on another system.
J
jaynm26
New member
Basically what Kip said for me from left to right, I balance the whole mix from the rhythmic section my kick and snare are set to desired level then I work from there as kip stated.
All Comp exp.(Drums & Master Mix Bus) are moderate and mild just for controlling level
All Drums Bus/Aux - Comp (mostly SSL Bus Comp), All my drums routed here heavy comp
All Bass Bus/Aux - Comp, I dont often buss my bass but if I have more than 1 I do.
All Vocals Bus/Aux - Comp, All my lead vocals sent here for over comp level
All BGV Bus/Aux - Comp, back ground vocals, adlibs, doubles, harmonies, I do this to give the backing vocals there on space and room to breath also added with comp.
All FX Bus/Aux - NO COMP, All my fx are routed here delay, rvb ect. again allow effects own space and level I add no comp to the Fx bus its changes the effects way to much
Master Mix Bus - All previous busses routed here and SSL Bus Comp or Neve Comp & EQ, SSL EQ or Neve EQ or PSP Nobel EQ, or Sonnox EQ, or Waves HQ depends on genre and feel im going for. My final level -6 dBFS let the mastering eng make it loud and i give him A LOT of head room to do so.
All Comp exp.(Drums & Master Mix Bus) are moderate and mild just for controlling level
All Drums Bus/Aux - Comp (mostly SSL Bus Comp), All my drums routed here heavy comp
All Bass Bus/Aux - Comp, I dont often buss my bass but if I have more than 1 I do.
All Vocals Bus/Aux - Comp, All my lead vocals sent here for over comp level
All BGV Bus/Aux - Comp, back ground vocals, adlibs, doubles, harmonies, I do this to give the backing vocals there on space and room to breath also added with comp.
All FX Bus/Aux - NO COMP, All my fx are routed here delay, rvb ect. again allow effects own space and level I add no comp to the Fx bus its changes the effects way to much
Master Mix Bus - All previous busses routed here and SSL Bus Comp or Neve Comp & EQ, SSL EQ or Neve EQ or PSP Nobel EQ, or Sonnox EQ, or Waves HQ depends on genre and feel im going for. My final level -6 dBFS let the mastering eng make it loud and i give him A LOT of head room to do so.
guitar zero
c = b#
This is exactly what I do, and I do it in mono. Usually drums and vocals first. Vocals are usually the most important part of any song, so get them sounding good and sitting right with the drums first. Starting with the loudest and busiest part of the song gets the heavy lifting out of the way right off the bat, and once levels are set, the rest of the song will be much easier. If you mix the quiet intro first, then first verse, then find you're clipping in the chorus, you've wasted time, and you'll have to re-do everything. Once levels are set in mono, I continue with eq in mono. Get it sounding good in mono, and more than likely once you pan things it will sound great.
R
ronhar
New member
Great discussion...
I just wanted to comment on the stereo guitar amp. I have a line six Duoverb that splits or combines two different amps. The live combination makes a big difference even if the speakers are within inches of each other. Same for my live bass rig with a modern 2x15 cab and a vintage 2x12 Fender bassman cab. The sound textures matter no matter where they emit from. Kinda like my on mix even when live.
All these opinions are appreciated by we beginners!
I just wanted to comment on the stereo guitar amp. I have a line six Duoverb that splits or combines two different amps. The live combination makes a big difference even if the speakers are within inches of each other. Same for my live bass rig with a modern 2x15 cab and a vintage 2x12 Fender bassman cab. The sound textures matter no matter where they emit from. Kinda like my on mix even when live.
All these opinions are appreciated by we beginners!
M
mindsound
New member
My point on the subject is that a mix is like anything in the Nature: many tiny parts (here waves) all interacting together. Nothing is standing on it's own. So that's why I'm trying to work the entire mix all the time, even when I'm focusing for a moment on the drums or guitar. That is, I'll have no order 'cause listening like this, the song dictate the direction to take and on what you should concentrate on a given moment.
It comes also from an approach in wich I firmly believe in: When recording, have the mixer ear and when mixing, have that master engineer ear (if possible). So, the best I think, is to work the mix as the ones will listen to, as a whole!
It comes also from an approach in wich I firmly believe in: When recording, have the mixer ear and when mixing, have that master engineer ear (if possible). So, the best I think, is to work the mix as the ones will listen to, as a whole!
I
iamsmash
New member
i tend to mix the instrumental (kick snare drums - percussion, bass, low end instruments, mid range, high end, synths, FX.) Once im happy with that i start on vocals.
J
jaynm26
New member
Me I gain stage first so I have to start with Drums as to set the highest peak and levels for my mix. I balance everything off of the drums so I do them first. My session set up....
Top or Left
All Drum/Percussion Parts - All sent to a "ALL DRUMS" Bus/Aux
Bass - Sometimes I add it to the Drum Bus if the bass has the same rhythm as the kick, if not I send it straight to the Mix Bus.
Guitars - Gtr Bus/Aux
All Other Instruments...
Piano
Strings
Brass etc. - All sent to a "ALL MUSIC" Bus/Aux
Lead Vocal - Lead Vocal Bus/Aux
Background Vocals - Sent to BGV Bus/Aux
All these vocals are sent to the "ALL VOCALS" Bus/Aux
Fx - All Reverb's, Delay's sent to "ALL FX's" Bus
All Buses Feed into a Master Mix Bus, for mix down so...
ALL DRUMS Bus/Aux, ALL MUSIC Bus/Aux, ALL VOCALS Bus/Aux, ALL FX Bus/Aux all feeds into my MASTER MIX BUS...I have complete control over each element of the mix instantly I can mute, change, edit an element with just one click. Also I apply comp over some of the buses some just to control level not to comp at all (Drums, Vocals & Mix Bus).
Top or Left
All Drum/Percussion Parts - All sent to a "ALL DRUMS" Bus/Aux
Bass - Sometimes I add it to the Drum Bus if the bass has the same rhythm as the kick, if not I send it straight to the Mix Bus.
Guitars - Gtr Bus/Aux
All Other Instruments...
Piano
Strings
Brass etc. - All sent to a "ALL MUSIC" Bus/Aux
Lead Vocal - Lead Vocal Bus/Aux
Background Vocals - Sent to BGV Bus/Aux
All these vocals are sent to the "ALL VOCALS" Bus/Aux
Fx - All Reverb's, Delay's sent to "ALL FX's" Bus
All Buses Feed into a Master Mix Bus, for mix down so...
ALL DRUMS Bus/Aux, ALL MUSIC Bus/Aux, ALL VOCALS Bus/Aux, ALL FX Bus/Aux all feeds into my MASTER MIX BUS...I have complete control over each element of the mix instantly I can mute, change, edit an element with just one click. Also I apply comp over some of the buses some just to control level not to comp at all (Drums, Vocals & Mix Bus).
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S
sixer2007
New member
Interesting! I literally do the exact same thing. I haven't completely worked out the compression on my different busses except for the drums to some degree, but I really enjoy my workflow management when I work this way.
J
jaynm26
New member
Yep so do I been doin it for years this way, gives you so much control, and very easy to pick out a problem and fix it. Need a boost in vocals grab the vocal bus, need a lift on the drums grab the drum bus etc. I love my session setup I also have one little step I do now as well...
S
sixer2007
New member
I made a nice little project template for mine with all the busses, typical FX tracks, etc (no plugins though, I might do that eventually as there are some go to plugs for me recently). I just add all my tracks, assign their routing, get levels and go to town. Very slick
J
jaynm26
New member
Not that im doing anything special sure others do it as well. But I save my above setup as a template with headphone mix and some comp's on the mix buses I mentioned (Key thing all of my comp's are muted when recording and before I mix).
I place the Bomb Factor VU meter on the last input (what is K-J or whatever it is) just the last input on inserts I place the VU Meter plugin on. As I mix and gain stage to 0=VU as if im on an analog console, not 0=dBFS big difference. (plus I use hardware equipment sometimes that I route out to and back in). Then at the top I place a Trim on every track (except my mix buses) and trim to -20 dB on every trim on every track.(Again to put me my mixing levels right at 0=VU when I start mixing) Then right after the trim I place my Waves NLS Channel or SSL Channel or UAD Neve Channel, or lately I been putting on the V-EQ4 and just cutting the analog modeling on in some cases on every track. (to me the waves neve EQ are better than the UAD Neve EQ's I know sorry just my opinion.) Then I bring up the input on the plugins whichever I apply.
I start with the input or fader on the plugin all the way down. Ext. NLS my faders is at the bottom I slowly pull it up to get a nice mix level. If im using the SSL I drop the fader all the way down, push the input gain (white knob) proly to round -12 to -18 and slowly bring the fader up to desired mix level. UAD Neve channel same. If im using The V-EQ4, I never touch the EQ I push the input gain and adjust output gain to place signal at desired mix level (I know Im crazy, just me). I do every track that way and get my full mix, mixed that way. Sounds amazing.
On the Bus tracks SSL & Neve Channel I just use the input knob as a drive knob I dont touch the fader of the track I adjust the desired mix level with the fader inside the plugin. NLS Channel I use the drive and fader for balancing. NLS Bus Plugin on Mix Bus, it all depends on what im doin in the mix. SSL & Neve on Mix Bus I use input knob as a drive knob and us comp thats on the plugin to glue the whole mix together. V-EQ4 Most of the time this EQ is already on my mix bus I use it for a global EQ over my entire mix also to glue the mix together or add a little last minute bass or top end for polish and sheen plus again the actual sound of the modeled analog console on this plugin is insane my whole mix just sounds amazing running through it. I use input & output levels to get my desired final mix level if i am not compressing my mix, because I try to balance and gain stage well sometimes I mix into a Comp sometimes I dont all depends on the music and the end result of my mix.
I place the Bomb Factor VU meter on the last input (what is K-J or whatever it is) just the last input on inserts I place the VU Meter plugin on. As I mix and gain stage to 0=VU as if im on an analog console, not 0=dBFS big difference. (plus I use hardware equipment sometimes that I route out to and back in). Then at the top I place a Trim on every track (except my mix buses) and trim to -20 dB on every trim on every track.(Again to put me my mixing levels right at 0=VU when I start mixing) Then right after the trim I place my Waves NLS Channel or SSL Channel or UAD Neve Channel, or lately I been putting on the V-EQ4 and just cutting the analog modeling on in some cases on every track. (to me the waves neve EQ are better than the UAD Neve EQ's I know sorry just my opinion.) Then I bring up the input on the plugins whichever I apply.
I start with the input or fader on the plugin all the way down. Ext. NLS my faders is at the bottom I slowly pull it up to get a nice mix level. If im using the SSL I drop the fader all the way down, push the input gain (white knob) proly to round -12 to -18 and slowly bring the fader up to desired mix level. UAD Neve channel same. If im using The V-EQ4, I never touch the EQ I push the input gain and adjust output gain to place signal at desired mix level (I know Im crazy, just me). I do every track that way and get my full mix, mixed that way. Sounds amazing.
On the Bus tracks SSL & Neve Channel I just use the input knob as a drive knob I dont touch the fader of the track I adjust the desired mix level with the fader inside the plugin. NLS Channel I use the drive and fader for balancing. NLS Bus Plugin on Mix Bus, it all depends on what im doin in the mix. SSL & Neve on Mix Bus I use input knob as a drive knob and us comp thats on the plugin to glue the whole mix together. V-EQ4 Most of the time this EQ is already on my mix bus I use it for a global EQ over my entire mix also to glue the mix together or add a little last minute bass or top end for polish and sheen plus again the actual sound of the modeled analog console on this plugin is insane my whole mix just sounds amazing running through it. I use input & output levels to get my desired final mix level if i am not compressing my mix, because I try to balance and gain stage well sometimes I mix into a Comp sometimes I dont all depends on the music and the end result of my mix.
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JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Wow. Someone is plug happy! lol!
I'm no better in that regard.....
I'm no better in that regard.....
B
blinkofeye
New member
I mix stage by stage , first , after recording , I clean everything then export each instrument separately , for example one track for each of guitars and maybe 2 tracks of bass and each drums instrument on separate tracks (one stereo for kicks , one mono for snare , one mono hihat ,...) , this way I won't have several tracks for each instrument (some times separate each part of the song too) , then I open a new session , and start mixing drums , then I export each drum instrument in separate track , then start a new session mixing all tracks together from drums , then , bass , then guitars , then vocals , ... sometimes I mix in another stage if I have a heavy session, I export every group of instruments (all guitars in one track , all strings in one ,...) , then export an stereo track for mastering , the reason I m doing this is I do all my mixing within my laptop and if I have lots of tracks and lots of effects in one session my system can not simply handle it ... and one thing else , I always start to using visual analyzing in the middle of my mixing , it helps me to work with frequencies better sometimes , and the other thing is most of the times I have reference track to compare my mixing to it
EDIT : forgot to say I always have a light compressor and a reverb in main mix bus , but i will remove them before exporting except the final stereo track export for mastering
EDIT : forgot to say I always have a light compressor and a reverb in main mix bus , but i will remove them before exporting except the final stereo track export for mastering
R
Relic1882
New member
I try not to use reverb unless I think the track needs it in particular. I've noticed, at least with the way our songs go, that reverb builds up pretty quick and I've had plenty of times where I realized that it was the reverb added that made some mixes sound like a mess.