What mixers can/can't do

[dobro]

I'm confused about what mixers can/can't do.

I've got an 8-channel mixer going into an 8-channel soundcard. The soundcard people recommend using first-click inserts for this, so that each channel goes to a separate track. First question: using the inserts means bypassing all the mixer circuitry except for the pre, right?

Also, I've been experimenting with tracking with reverb. I've got a two-channel reverb unit. The only way I can make it work is: mixer aux send to reverb in, reverb outs to mixer aux returns. Mixer main outs to soundcard. Question: are there mixers which can send effected signal directly from the channel to the recorder, instead of going via the mixer main outs? If I had enough reverb units, is there a mixer that could send, for example, 8 different channels of reverbed signals to the recorder?

 

[pglewis]

1) I think that's right, though the fader circuit might be in there too.

2) There's no reason you have to bring the reverb signal back to the aux return. You're free to route the signal from the reverb to a couple of channels on the mixer, if you have 'em to spare. I'm kinda hazy on exactly what you're trying to do, so I'm not sure if this answers the question.

 

[Das]

well

the only way i can think of to do that sort of thing is to get 8 different reverb units and an 8-buss mixer. then you use the insert channel on each channel for reverb. you assign each channel to a seperate buss, then have each buss go out to a different soundcard channel,
there's probably an easier/cheaper way of doing it though.

 

[Emeric]

Couldn't you go out of an insert, into the reverb and then run the stereo ouputs of the reverb into two inputs on the soundcard? If your soundcard allows you to route signals within it, you could monitor the verbed signal by sending that signal out another pair of outputs on the soundcard, back into a fader or two on your mixer. Not sure if that's what your after or not.

 

[regebro]

The inserts of mixers can be both before and after the EQ and before or after the fader. It's all up to the mixer. I don't know what is most common, so check your manual.

 

[skippy]

Might I make a suggestion? If your board is one of the ones that does disconnect the rest of the signal path when you try to do a "first-click" insert steal, you can easily cheat. Make some specialized "insert-stealing" cables. These use a 1/4" TRS plug on the mixer end, and a regular 1/4" TS plug on the other. These are not a normal balanced-to-unbalanced adapter cable: their only use in the world is stealing inserts, so you'll need to make them. And paint the connector shells red, or something, so you know that they are to be used *only* for this, when you're digging for cables...

Here's the secret. In the TRS plug, short tip to ring, and connect the hot lead of your cable to that shorted node. The shield goes to sleeve, as always. On the other end, it's just a normal TS connection. By using a TRS jack with tip shorted to ring, you can insert the plug all the way, and the short connects your new direct out to the insert's return input for you. This lets your external electronics bridge across the normal signal path, *instead* of interrupting it. So you can do anything that you'd usually do with the mixer: do effects submixes, monitor, yadda yadda. It's a moderately clean solution to a dirty problem.

On an insert on most boards, the channel signal send is on the ring, and the return is on the tip (but not all- check your board's doc). Once a plug is in the jack, this normal is broken. The shorting link restores that normal connection. You can't use an off-the-shelf TRS balanced-unbalanced cable for this, because they usually short the ring to ground- which is most definitely *not* what you want. And you do not want to mix this up with a bal-unbal adapter cable, since it would be a dead short from + to - if used in a balanced application... Thus, the red paint on the shells (when I make 'em, anyway!)

Caveats about using a insert-stealing approach: there is no buffer amp between the external tap and the internal signal path. Use as short a cable as feasible, and be careful with your grounds. If you load down the tapped signal you will affect your levels for that channel within the board, and can possibly run into distortion, frequency response, or noise-injection problems and so on. But still: this is by far the easiest way to mimic a real direct out that there is.

Hope that helps.