what makes a good room good?

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tim_oreilly

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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I did a quick search and didn't see anything specific on the topic. The thought occurred to me when I saw a comment on rec.audio.pro where someone suggested that a pair of Oktava MC012s would sound better than a pair of AKG C1000s in a good room but WORSE in a bad room!

Despite the ill-repute in which the C1000s seem to be held (and the high-regard in which the MC012s seem to be held), I tend to suspect that this observation might well be true.

A few years ago, my band used to practice in a room that had high ceilings (15-20'), no windows, plaster walls, and wood floors, but the size of the room was probably similar to a very small rock club and it was like playing in the Grand Canyon. Too much damn reverb! We then moved into a shoebox in another building and my guitar sounded like it was in a closet full of clothes. Not bad, you could hear everything perfectly well, but it was dead! We recently moved into a room down the hall from the "Grand Canyon" room, which is maybe 1/3 the size with a couch and rugs, as well as a little bit of soundproofing, and it sounds (by comparison) great! Again, I'd guess 15-20' ceilings, wood floors, brick and plaster walls, 30-40' deep, 10-15' wide?

So, I'm curious...what factors make a difference? Dimensions, shape, materials (concrete, wood, brick, glass), damping?

This is "home" recording after all, so I suspect that folks have done some recording in some funky rooms and gotten some interesting results.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Tim
 
Record in a bad space and I don't care if you've got Neumanns and Neves up the ass it's gonna sound like dogshit.
 
...Everything...

Everything can make a room's own sound change.

Dimensions, Materials, Critical distance, can affect reverb.

Amp placement, Mic placement, proximity to walls, can end in phasing problems.

Furniture, objects, can vibrate and produce noise.

Bad Isolation = noise from outside

and so on...

Get it?

try to have a good balance with what you have at hand.

Peace...

PC
 
John Sayers said:


good acoustics :)

cheers
john
Click to expand...

OK...

John.
So what are good accoustics? Or maybe an easier question to answer is what are bad acoustics? Most of us are recording in our homes or apartments, what are common things in our living spaces that make for bad acoustics. I have a bedroom that is 8x10, 11' ceiling, hardwood floor and plaster walls. What is good or bad about this room?

Thanks,
scodu
 
is not only the size...

Your bed, couch, curtains and even your book shelves can affect...
You can make a small room sound great...the important thing is to (try) to "have control" of its reverb time, damping, know wich freqs may cancel and wich ones will be increased...It is a whole deal to manage this...just record and mess around till it sounds cool. Don't be so concerned about this unless you are opening a pro studio.

Peace...

PC
 
do a little search on the web, and you'll find a few articles about that. you can also go to amazon.com or music books plus, and order a couple books about acoustic treatment and studio construction. they're always useful. sometimes a small adjustment in your tracking/monitoring room makes all the difference.
 
Or you can search and download a book by JBL

I guess it is called "sound system design" or something like that.

Peace

PC
 
OK scodu - your room.

Firstly you will have three parallel walls, yes 3, the front/back, the leftside/rightside and the most missed one the Floor/ceiling. In fact standing in the room the floor ceiling is the closest and shortest. Carpet will help so lay a carpet under the vocalist but ceiling treatment with some insulation will help heaps. Use your furniture to break up the other parallel walls as Powercouple said, bookshelves etc etc.

Your room will typically have a hump in the low mids so you will probably need to eq a dip around 300hz to lower that area.

If you want to go further build or get someone to build for you these wall units.

http://home.locall.aunz.com/~johnsay/HR/index1.htm

If you wish to learn more about acoustics check out this site

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

If you want to see what others have done check this site out

http://locall.dataline.net.au/~johnsay/Studio/index.htm

cheers
John
 
This is all very interesting - thanks for all of the links and suggestions.

Here's a follow-up question - are there different schools of thought as to the kind and degree of natural reverb you want in the room?

I understand, for example, that Led Zeppelin got some of their massive drum sounds in the hallway of a big house.

But on the other end of the spectrum, I imagine you could use a much more "dead" room which would give you a lot more control over the kind and amount of reverb effects you want to add during mixing.

One thing I will say is that, in my opinion, rarely do drums stand out as sounding amazing on modern recordings the way they do (to me) on Led Zeppelin albums.

I wonder whether with lots of sound reinforcement and close miking whether you lose something in return for the control you gain in the effects processing stage.

I fully admit I know next to nothing about acoustics and could stand to learn a lot from some primers on basic acoustics that I could find on amazon.com. I actually intend to do some reading on the topic, so thanks for those recommendations.

However, in the meantime, I suspect this isn't all pure science and that there is some subjectivity involved - or am I wrong?

In any event, I would be very interested in hearing some opinions and personal experiences - or to be told that I am wrong and that there is objectively an ideal room that everyone in their right mind would like, and that all one has to do to get "good" acoustice is copy that ideal room.

Thanks again!
 
hhmmmmm

In fact, back in the old days, reverb was done "true-style-and-handcrafted" lol

I mean, each studio had its own acoustics and reverbs in their rooms, that made them unique. For example, if you wanted certain reverb you had to go to Abbey Road cos you couldn't get that sound anywhere else.

I love this method. Ther desired track was played through a speaker in the desired room and recorded with a mic in the same room. I prefer this technique because we are kind of used and tired of emulated reverbs...

...as Jack Douglas said once: "give me something organic to work with, and I'll give you a record that sounds different".

So...there is no such thing as "THE" acoustics for a room. IMHO

Peace...

PC
 
A good exercise is to get an acoustic guitar or drum and go around to different rooms in your house and play for awhile. See how the rooms sound when you play in different areas.

It is mainly subjective and live sounding recordings vs. dead is a matter of taste and techniqe. If you have killer fx units then record very dry and use them. If you have an old nanoverb than you are probably better off using a room mic for extra ambience. The style of music will also dictate what type of sound is more preferred by listeners and AR dudes.
 
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