Hi folks. While I have been playing forever, I must admit that my knowledge of the technical side of guitar and amp electronics is somewhat lacking. I now find myself in the market for a new amp and I am wondering if there are any technical attributes that are better for lower tunings (I'm spending a lot of time tuned down around B). My budget is a bit tight so I'm probably limited to solid state amps if that makes a difference. Thanks for any advice.
What makes a good amp for low tunings?
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Myriad_Rocker
New member
Can we assume you play metal?
I don't think an amp gives a shit what tuning you're in. The speaker cab will play a larger role here.
What style you play dictates your amp selection. What sound are you going for?
I don't think an amp gives a shit what tuning you're in. The speaker cab will play a larger role here.
What style you play dictates your amp selection. What sound are you going for?
Yeah I guess I should have been more specific for this crowd. Sorry. I am talking about speakers and the whole kit when I say "amp". Style-wise, you are right to guess metal. In simple terms think Gothenburg-ish style or just check our MySpace if you would like a more specific idea of our sound.
I've got a bass cabinet as part of my current rig to try to bolster the sound of the busted ass amp I am playing now and I gotta tell ya, it just ain't workin' for me.
Myriad_Rocker
New member
What's your budget?
Otherwise I'll just suggest a Bogner Uberschall because that's what your music needs.
Oh, and what is your current amp?
Otherwise I'll just suggest a Bogner Uberschall because that's what your music needs.
Oh, and what is your current amp?
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SpotlightKid83
New member
Don't mind the amp, get Celestion V30 speakers and you'll be fine.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Well, Gothenburg = Peavey 5150. If you like that tone, that's the fastest (and conveniently, cheapest) way to get there.
I play mostly seven string guitar (in B standard, but I've farted around as far down as low E, an octave below standard tuning, before), have for the last six or seven years, and moderate over at www.sevenstring.org where we have several thousand members who also play extended range guitars. As such, I've got a lot of personal experience and I've talked to a ton of people who've also had a lot of experience, so I sort of feel like I can answer this with a good degree of confidence for you.
Basically, the difference between E and B isn't THAT great, so most amps you can get a metal tone out of for E standard will cut it in B. I go back and forth on Mesa's Mark-IV, which B is right about the limit I'd take it to, but then again I've never gotten to reallly open one up before so maybe the poweramp is what you need to give that thing adequate low end definition.
However, while anything within reason can handle low B (within reason in this case means adequate headroom and at least 12" speakers - I wouldn't recommend trying to gig with 8" and 15 solid state watts), you really need to spend some time dialing your amp in right. The long and short of it:
GAIN - with low tuned guitars you really need to be sensible here. It's true of anything of course, but especially so wiith super-low notes; if you jack the gain all the way up, you're going to lose a lot of the "impact" of your tone as the initial attack gets compressed to hell and back, and really the attack is what lends a ton of definition to your tone. So, when in doubt try less.
BASS - I know, this one's obvious, but if you;re trying to reproduce low frequencies, you need a lot of low end, right? Wrong, actually - because you're sending so much low energy into the amp, you need to be careful with the low end to keep your tone from farting out.
To put things into perspective, when I'm dialing up a heavy tone, I generally don't have the gain over 5-6 and bass about 2-3 on the Modern mode of my Mesa Rectoverb. Granted the Recto series isn't the greatest example since the throw of the bass knob is designed as a compromise for alll three distortion modes and as such has WAY too much low end for the (already bassy) Modern, but the 10-0-10 mid scoop a lot of metal guys start with will rob your tone of all definition.
Other things to try:
Use an OD - this is the Andy Sneap school of tone, a Rectifier (or some such amp, a 5150 would work here too) with a Tube Screamer out front with the gain at or near zero, and the level about unity so it doesn't actually really boost the signal. The idea is not to add additional gain (though you are, a little) but rather to use the pedal as sort of a pre-EQ to tighten up the low end a little (as part of the TS magic is the way it lops off a bit of the low end). If you're curious, I've been using a Bodenhamer Electronics modded TS9 - he mods tube screamers especially for this purpose, but to be fair mine also absolutely slays overdriving a clean channel with a strat for SRV style tone. I've been meaning to grab one of his Bloody Murder OD's as well, simply because it'd crack me up to show up at a blues jam with something called a "Bloody Murder."
Try Lighter Strings - This one's, well... I string heavy (10-68 on a 7) simply because I hit the strings pretty hard and I need the tuning stability heavier strings offer to stay intonated when I pick, but even I'll admit that lighter strings are brighter and less compressed than heavier strings, and if you're trying to preserve attack through a distorted tone, this is a good way to help that. There's this prevailing "heavy strings = more tone" manliness thing, and again this is coming from a guy who uses telephone cables, but it's not "better," just different. For some applications, lighter strings can rule. If you don't pick so hard that this is a major issue, then you may want to try going down a string guage and see if that improves your clarity.
Remember, though - for low tuning, always strive for clarity, attack, and definition to preserve your guitar sound in a mix.
I play mostly seven string guitar (in B standard, but I've farted around as far down as low E, an octave below standard tuning, before), have for the last six or seven years, and moderate over at www.sevenstring.org where we have several thousand members who also play extended range guitars. As such, I've got a lot of personal experience and I've talked to a ton of people who've also had a lot of experience, so I sort of feel like I can answer this with a good degree of confidence for you.
Basically, the difference between E and B isn't THAT great, so most amps you can get a metal tone out of for E standard will cut it in B. I go back and forth on Mesa's Mark-IV, which B is right about the limit I'd take it to, but then again I've never gotten to reallly open one up before so maybe the poweramp is what you need to give that thing adequate low end definition.
However, while anything within reason can handle low B (within reason in this case means adequate headroom and at least 12" speakers - I wouldn't recommend trying to gig with 8" and 15 solid state watts), you really need to spend some time dialing your amp in right. The long and short of it:
GAIN - with low tuned guitars you really need to be sensible here. It's true of anything of course, but especially so wiith super-low notes; if you jack the gain all the way up, you're going to lose a lot of the "impact" of your tone as the initial attack gets compressed to hell and back, and really the attack is what lends a ton of definition to your tone. So, when in doubt try less.
BASS - I know, this one's obvious, but if you;re trying to reproduce low frequencies, you need a lot of low end, right? Wrong, actually - because you're sending so much low energy into the amp, you need to be careful with the low end to keep your tone from farting out.
To put things into perspective, when I'm dialing up a heavy tone, I generally don't have the gain over 5-6 and bass about 2-3 on the Modern mode of my Mesa Rectoverb. Granted the Recto series isn't the greatest example since the throw of the bass knob is designed as a compromise for alll three distortion modes and as such has WAY too much low end for the (already bassy) Modern, but the 10-0-10 mid scoop a lot of metal guys start with will rob your tone of all definition.
Other things to try:
Use an OD - this is the Andy Sneap school of tone, a Rectifier (or some such amp, a 5150 would work here too) with a Tube Screamer out front with the gain at or near zero, and the level about unity so it doesn't actually really boost the signal. The idea is not to add additional gain (though you are, a little) but rather to use the pedal as sort of a pre-EQ to tighten up the low end a little (as part of the TS magic is the way it lops off a bit of the low end). If you're curious, I've been using a Bodenhamer Electronics modded TS9 - he mods tube screamers especially for this purpose, but to be fair mine also absolutely slays overdriving a clean channel with a strat for SRV style tone. I've been meaning to grab one of his Bloody Murder OD's as well, simply because it'd crack me up to show up at a blues jam with something called a "Bloody Murder."
Try Lighter Strings - This one's, well... I string heavy (10-68 on a 7) simply because I hit the strings pretty hard and I need the tuning stability heavier strings offer to stay intonated when I pick, but even I'll admit that lighter strings are brighter and less compressed than heavier strings, and if you're trying to preserve attack through a distorted tone, this is a good way to help that. There's this prevailing "heavy strings = more tone" manliness thing, and again this is coming from a guy who uses telephone cables, but it's not "better," just different. For some applications, lighter strings can rule. If you don't pick so hard that this is a major issue, then you may want to try going down a string guage and see if that improves your clarity.
Remember, though - for low tuning, always strive for clarity, attack, and definition to preserve your guitar sound in a mix.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Actually, there's been a bit of a backlash against the V30 in the low-tuned metal community of late, especially with Rectifiers - they DO have a bit of a midrange spike that makes it tough to run the mids as high as you need to on a Rectifier to really get the best preamp response out of them.
Everyone I've talked to who's switched to Mesa's C90 Black Shadow speaker hasn't looked back.
Wow, great responses guys. Cheers.
As for the person asking about my budget, it is still somewhat to be determined, but I am probably stuck to <$1000.
Ha, Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth once told me I look like Andy Sneap. Personally, I don't see the resemblence, but I wasn't about to argue the point.
As for the person asking about my budget, it is still somewhat to be determined, but I am probably stuck to <$1000.
Ha, Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth once told me I look like Andy Sneap. Personally, I don't see the resemblence, but I wasn't about to argue the point.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
I <3 Opeth. One of the better live bands I've ever seen. Caught them with Nevermore, and they really drove home the two different ways to get a great "heavy" sound. Loomis was playing an EMG'd Schecter Hellraiser into a Krank, probably with some sort of an OD out front, with a lot of gain and a bit of a midrange scoop. Evil, edgy, crunchy as all hell, very saturated. Meanwhile, Mikael was playing a passive-equipped PRS into a Laney, I believe, dialed for a ton of midrange, moderate gain, and not much else. On it's own his tone sounded comparatively anemic, but when the whole band was behind him they sounded absolutely brutal. Of the two, I thought his tone was better, and certainly cut a little better than Nevermore did.
Anyway, if you're into the Gothenburg sound, a Tube Screamer, a 5150 head, and whatever sort of cab you can grab for the balance is probably your best bet. I'm sorry, I don't have enough experience with the 5150 to recommend specific settings, but...
The other thing of course is what sort of guitar are you playing? body wood, scale length, fingerboard material, and pickups reallly change the picture here a bit, too...
Yeah for sure. I'm currently playing a terrible metal guitar: a Fender Strat. It is modded with a Duncan humbucker in the bridge position which helps a bit, but it still isn't cut out for what I am playing now. A new guitar is also on my shopping list at the moment. The current front runner is a PRS SE Standard, but I still need to go spend an afternoon at a git shop playing everything they have to be sure.
mikemorgan
panned out
I'm not an endorser, but I know a few Windy City guys are using these for bass.
http://www.revoltamps.com/
http://www.revoltamps.com/
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
It's not as terrible as you'd think, actually. Alder and ash both detune pretty well, and I love the sound of a maple fretboard - the attack is a bit more percussive.
PRS's are nice, of course, but for what you're doing (downtuned metal), I'd actually consider them a step back - mahogany has a lot of growl to it, but isn't the most present of tonewoods (though the maple top helps), a rosewood board would soften your attack, their pickups are pretty mid-y and not really voiced for metal, and ther biggie, they have a 25" scale, which would be a step back from your stratocaster.
On the cheap, I've been seriously impressed with most of Schecter's recent offerings - their fretwork in particular is spectacular for a Korean line. I know they're "assembled in the USA," and I'm wondering if maybe they do some fret finishing when they put them together. A C1 would give you the same aesthetic appeal of a PRS (ok, maybe not exactly, but many of them are pretty hot), and the Duncans or EMG's they spec their better ones with are better suited for metal than PRS's stock pickups.
And, since you're tuning down that far anyway, maybe grab a seven? For the Gothenburg sound, EMG's are probably worth checking out, and the C7 Hellraiser is a HELL of a guitar for the money - I used to own one, and sold it only to buy a C7 Blackjack since I'm more of a passive guy. The black cherry finish over quilted maple was to die for though... Forget Korn and their ilk and grab some Nevermore to hear what an accomplished metal guitarist can do with one. I like their earlier stuff ("Dreaming Neon Black" and "Dead Heart in a Dead World" particularly) a bit more than their latest, but they're worth a listen.
If you have any questions, I moderate over at www.sevenstring.org, where there's several hundred regulars who will gladly try to talk you into making the switch...
My other guitar player just bought a new Schecter 7 string, but I haven't had a chance to take it for a spin yet.
As for Nevermore, the last time I saw them was in a club here in Calgary with maybe 25 people in it. Not surprisingly I don't think they were too into it and we definitely didn't see their best performance. But man, talk about nice equipment. Into Eternity opened the show and used most of Nevermore's stuff and man did it make a difference over other times I have seen them.
Anyway, I really have to fond a car to borrow so I can actually get out to a guitar shop...
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Doesn't sound like Nevermore, to not give it their all...
do a Youtube search for them covering "The Sound of Silence" at the Worcester Palladium. It's not that big a venue at all (I actually caught them there, but this video isn't from that show, sadly), but man, what a performance - they start by pulling some guy up out of the crowd to sing a couple lines and headbang a big on stage, and next thing you know the band just starts helping guys get up on stage past the guards... By the end of the song there's like 20 or 30 guys thrashing around on stage wiith the band. It's incredible.
thebigcheese
"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
I'm sure you can spend enough money to get something better, but the bass in my Crate 65W is pretty ridiculous. Granted, I think my guitar is pretty bass-heavy, too, but compared to my friend's 100W Fender, my amp might as well be designed for a bass. Something on the actual housing rattles a bit, tho, so I have to fix that...
legionserial
New member
I've been using a modded strat for metal for, like, ever, and I love it. I have an 7-string Ibanez also, but far prefer the tone of the strat.
+1 on the 5150 though. Or 6505 as they are now called. I have one of those and it rocks. I have a Tubescreamer, but I don't find myself using it all that much with the 6505.
Well, the amp issue may have been settled by an irresistible deal. A buddy of mine who works at a local shop has a Mesa Dual Rectifier with a 4x12 Mesa cab that is just too good of a deal to pass on despite being a bit more than I wanted to spend. It's hard to say no when faced with such a thing.
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Well, the amp issue may have been settled by an irresistible deal. A buddy of mine who works at a local shop has a Mesa Dual Rectifier with a 4x12 Mesa cab that is just too good of a deal to pass on despite being a bit more than I wanted to spend. It's hard to say no when faced with such a thing.
Dude, I'm a long-time Recto hater (well, hater is strong - I always WANTED to like the amp) who now owns a Rectoverb. Grab a THD Hot Plate as soon as you can swing it - the preamp on the Recto, coupled with every GC kiddie's bad habit of cranking the bass, gain, presence, and treble and scooping out all the mids on Channel 3 Modern, is the reason everyone loves to slam the thing. And really, it's not even that the preamp sucks or anything - it sounds great, it's just it NEEDS the Rectifier poweramp to saturate a bit to darken and compress the amp a bit before it really begins to sing.
I'm a total Rectifier convert - it's got one of the best cleans I've ever heard in a high gain amp (the 1x12 C90 combo, anyway - your mileage may vary), and once you wind up that power amp and dial it in right, you'll quickly find that it's one of the most criminally underrated lead guitar amplifiers, as well.
Awesome.