What kind of treatment? (MP3 Clip)

[Grilled_Cheese]

I've read over Ethan's site a lot lately, and I know all about bass traps, side panels, absorbers on the ceiling, monitor placement, etc. etc.

I'll be getting some bass traps pretty soon, but I also want to know how to optimize my small room for recording acoustic guitar.

I always get a sort of lo-fi sound from my recordings which lack definition and overall, sound pretty muddy/shitty.

The room is 8x12 ft., with carpeted floor.

Here is a quick little sample I recorded so you can see what I mean by the lo-fi'sh kind of sound I'm getting.

Also, why is it considered bad to record guitar in a completely dead/isolated section, ie: a vocal booth? I've heard of people getting lively, airy, well recorded acoustic guitar tracks in a vocal booth.

Anyway Here's the clip, and I also attached a small picture of my room as it is.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=5590

 

[DM1]

I don't think your guitar sounds so bad. There's not a lot of "room" in it, but it sounds like you miked it pretty close. I think the room treatment factors into your guitar sound less and less the more closely you mic the instrument.

If you tried miking it from 4 or 5 feet back, we might get a better idea what your room is doing to the sound.

Frankly though, to get more definition from that guitar you recorded, I'd experiment with string types and mic placement before toying with the room.

why is it considered bad to record guitar in a completely dead/isolated section, ie: a vocal booth?

Well, first of all the standard caveat applies: there are no rules. If it sounds good, go for it.

As it concerns acoustic guitar, a "live room" sound is usually preferred for two reasons:
1) To add character or warmth to the instrument. This is mostly important when the acoustic guitar is the main instrument, or at least prominently featured. When we hear a guitar in person, we also hear the ambience of the space around it, so close-miked guitar often sounds unnatural because it lacks this ambience. (If the guitar is buried in the mix, though, the ambience is much less important.)
2) A "dead" space isn't always completely dead. A carpeted room, for example, absorbs most of the higher frequency reflections that our ears use to judge dimension. But the lower frequencies can still bounce around like crazy, and when you mic an instrument in a space like this, it can sound boomy or even muddy.

 

[RezN8]

I've read over Ethan's site a lot lately, and I know all about bass traps, side panels, absorbers on the ceiling, monitor placement, etc. etc.

I'll be getting some bass traps pretty soon, but I also want to know how to optimize my small room for recording acoustic guitar.

The room is 8x12 ft., with carpeted floor.

Ethan has some great suggestions on where to place his traps (start with the corners...) but the best tip is that you need to experiment with placement of additional traps.

There are many other parts of the equation that need to be considered. For instance, you gave us the length and width of the room, but not the height - nor the type of walls, type of ceiling, type of carpet, etc.

All these different elements will help you determine where to put the traps (and how many you'll need).

 

[Grilled_Cheese]

Thanks a bunch DM1 that really helps. I mic'd that from about 8" away, because anymore and then I get too much background noise and it also sounds like shit.

I just recorded another quick test from about 4' away. You'll see what I mean:

http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=5592

Ethan has some great suggestions on where to place his traps (start with the corners...) but the best tip is that you need to experiment with placement of additional traps.

There are many other parts of the equation that need to be considered. For instance, you gave us the length and width of the room, but not the height - nor the type of walls, type of ceiling, type of carpet, etc.

All these different elements will help you determine where to put the traps (and how many you'll need).

The height of the room is about 12'. I don't know what kind of walls they are... Normal walls I guess...

Here's some pictures I posted awhile ago not long after I moved in.

My computer is now where the CD player is in this picture:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=35209

This is the wall to the right of me (before I moved my computer desk).
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=35212

This is the wall to the left, which has the closet (I have my computer in there):
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=35211

And this is the rest of the wall to the left of me:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/attachment.php?attachmentid=35210

I'm going to start with bass traps, and after that I guess I'll have to get a measurement mic and try to measure out problem areas in the room?

Is treating the room for recording acoustic guitar the same as treating it for mixing?

 

[gullfo]

you may need some traps to tail off some high end reflections and some bass traps in each vertical corner. check Ethan Winers site.

 

[Grilled_Cheese]

gullfo - wow thanks for that!

I'm guessing you made that in Google Sketchup? If you still have the sketchup file, could you possibly zip it up and attach it?

If not, that's completely fine.

I'm going to start with some bass traps and add some more traps for the higher frequencies as I need to.

One more quick question: What's a good measurement mic you guys would recommend?

Once I get the traps setup, I want to do some comparisons using the ETF5 software.

 

[Yareek]

you may need some traps to tail off some high end reflections and some bass traps in each vertical corner. check Ethan Winers site.

Awesome, that diagram really helps. I'm going to try and build six panels as that is exactly how my room looks.

 

[gullfo]

gullfo - wow thanks for that!

I'm guessing you made that in Google Sketchup? If you still have the sketchup file, could you possibly zip it up and attach it?

If not, that's completely fine.

I'm going to start with some bass traps and add some more traps for the higher frequencies as I need to.

One more quick question: What's a good measurement mic you guys would recommend?

Once I get the traps setup, I want to do some comparisons using the ETF5 software.

PM me for the sketchup file it's about 150K too big for the BBS.

a Behringer ECM8000 is a decent omni mic that will work. when doing measurements you can either put the mic in the position where you will be mixing or playing, or you can put a speaker in those positions and measure around the room.

also, get the room mode calculator (http://www.harman.com/about_harman/technology_leadership.aspx). this will help in determining what you are dealing with and where it in the room you can expect to have peaks and nulls.

 

[Grilled_Cheese]

PM sent.

I also tried out the room mode calculator. Here are the results:

Does this mean I have standing (canceled) waves at:

71Hz, 141Hz, 212Hz, 283Hz, etc...?

I'm not really sure what to make of these results...

 

[gullfo]

PM sent.

I also tried out the room mode calculator. Here are the results:

Does this mean I have standing (canceled) waves at:

71Hz, 141Hz, 212Hz, 283Hz, etc...?

I'm not really sure what to make of these results...

somewhat... read this: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2441

explans how to map it to your room and then you can see the areas that are likely to be problematic.

bottom line is all rooms have standing waves resulting in cancellation (lower volume @ freq) and peaks (higher vol @ freq), comb filtering (coloration), resonances (vibrations), and phase (time of arrival @ freq) (different freq = different wave length combined with above = phase issues).

all you can do is try balance these factors based on your desired room "sound", noise levels (inbound and outbound), and permission/budget.

for instance, dead-center on your room is going to be null @ 47hz. if you do a lot of stuff with a low F# on a bass (47hz) you may find yourself bumping this up in the mix. http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
but if you sit off center to avoid the 71hz (width) null, then your side-to-side balance will be off. trade offs...

so you probably want to sit 3 1/2' or 5' from the front wall, dead center for balance, and trap 47hz (which is where a couple of www.realtrap.com Mondo Traps might be useful)

moving forward or backwards 6 inches will matter on the side-to-side nulls. the 3rd and 4th level modes are much lower in volume but may constribute to comb filter and phase effects because they're more in your hearing range. etc...

none of this so far is dealing with flutter echos (parallel walls causing short echos), reverberation (causing muddiness, softness), and sound isolation...