What is your process?

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nate_dennis

nate_dennis

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So, we talk a lot about gear, and technical issues in here (which is good.) But I've been thinking a lot about how other people work as far as the workflow of recording goes. I guess, mostly I'm interested in the solo type projects where you're pretty much doing it all. But that doesn't mean that those of you who record bands can't join in. I"m just interested in the way you all work. I"ll share mine later on. I never like to be the first to answer my own open-ended questions.



Peace.
 
nate_dennis said:
I"m just interested in the way you all work.
Click to expand...


Are you talking about the mechanical process or about the creative process or about the gear/option choices and technical process...etc?

There's a lot of stuff there to cover, so can you be more specific?
 
yeah, i guess all of it. When you decide "I'm going to record this song..." from the time you step into the studio (or in my case, set everything up in whatever room I can get into) what do you do? Where do you start? Etc...
 
nate_dennis said:
yeah, i guess all of it. When you decide "I'm going to record this song..." from the time you step into the studio (or in my case, set everything up in whatever room I can get into) what do you do? Where do you start? Etc...
Click to expand...

I doubt I'm unusual in that the process varies widely. About all I can share are a few of the questions that need to be answered:

What will I record it on?
What will be the timing source?
Will I start off first with some MIDI tracks?
Will I be syncing up to the MIDI rig?
How many tracks do I need?
If the kids are going to help, what do I need to lay down first to guide them?
Are there tracks that need to be recorded and then mixed and bounced?
Will I want to track to tape and then copy to the Yamaha standalone or just mix straight to 2-track?
Will I mix with the Mackie or do I need the added features of the Yamaha as a mixer (parametric EQ and dynamics on each channel)?
Can I get a decent sound tracking straight to the Yamaha?
What things will I wait until mixdown to combine?
Will I track anything/everything in stereo?
Will I try to double up and play and sing or just do everything separate?
Do I need to print to tape with some EQ or processing or should that wait until mixdown?
If there are drums, how many mikes, where, how are they mixed, what kind of sound do I want, how will I tune and adjust the tone on them (tight or ringing)?
Will the rhythm be driven by metronome, actual drums, drum synth, miscellaneous percussion parts, etc.?

Just a sampling of the things that might be relevant...

Cheers,

Otto
 
I do computer-based composition. So my workflow is like this:

1. Compose song in sequencer, over however many days/weeks. Unless I've got most of the song in a single go, I tend to keep ideas around and pick at them until I'm happy.

2. Record a digital version of the music, listen to it for a few days

3. When the music is sorted, figure out how many tracks will be needed and assign the instruments to various tracks.

4. Convert the sequence from SONAR to Rosegarden for tracking, any final tweaks to the music.

5. Lay down the timecode on the multitrack tape

6. Lay down the music, track by track using the sequencer locked against tape

7. Optionally, make a digitally-recorded mixdown of the music and listen to it at work. In many cases, the multitracked version will be different to the original recording in (2) because some synthesizers are monotimbral or monophonic. E.g. the mellotron and the monosynth have to be substituted for in the live sequenced version, and sometimes using the real thing introduces problems that weren't there before. Also, some instruments may need to be recorded together in a single track, particularly on 8-track format and I may wish to verify that the sub-mixing is okay.

8. Lay down the vocals, keep trying until it sounds good.

9. Mix the multitrack to 2-track tape.

10. Digitize it, listen to it. If the vocals suck in some way that wasn't apparent in tracking, go back to step 8.
 
It depends on the type of project, but for my own stuff (as opposed to work-for-hire stuff), it usually goes something like this. When I deem a song "ready to record" (which usually means a very loose demo or two has been "recorded"---usually consisting of just me and an acoustic or piano or something), I think about the following things:

1 Instrumentation: Will I need to use some samples from the DAW (Rhodes, etc.), or can I do it all without samples. This also helps figure out number 2 because of how many tracks I need.

2 Sound I want: Do I want a 4-track cassette sound, an 8-track R2R sound, or a digital sound. If it's my stuff, it's almost always one of the first two.

3 Vibe/feel: Do I want a looser performed-live sound, or more of a polished, overdubbed sound.

Once I've worked out things like this, I'll work out an arrangement and usually put together a track sheet. This is obviously most important when dealing with limited resources like the 4-track cassette approach.

At this point, things diverge quite a bit depending on which platform I'm using. If I'm working on the 4-track, and I have a good amount of instruments to do, I usually like to avoid bouncing if possible. This means pre-planning and performing more than one thing on each track if necessary, which usually means recruiting my wife or someone else. This also means printing effects on just about everything except for the track that'll have the lead vocal on it, but that will probably have acoustic or electric guitar on it too, depending on the arrangement.

If I'm using the 8-track R2R, unless I'm doing a live-in-studio type of thing, I'll usually record a scratch track first of just vocals and guitar (assuming it's not an instrumental). Then I'll usually overdub in the order of drums, bass, then guitars/keys, and then vocals. If I can get access to a drummer, I'll usually submix and record the drums on a stereo set of tracks, printing some effects and compression along the way and then overdub onto the rest of the tracks to finish the song. Sometimes I'll record the drums onto 4 tracks, fill up two more tracks with maybe bass and keys, and then bounce down to a stereo rhythm section on tracks 7-8, freeing up the first 6 tracks for more stuff.

I've just gotten the ability to sync the R2R and my DAW, so I'm looking into possibly doing that so I can fill up 6 or 7 tracks on the R2R, dump them into the DAW, and then track more on the R2R. But I haven't tried this yet.

So, it really varies all in all. But, in general, when it's just my stuff that I'm recording (read: not getting paid to do it), I prefer to stay out of the computer if I can and use outboard processing for everything. I do occasionally use the DAW for samples though, but when I do that, I usually just use it like an instrument and play it in real time. And I often run the signal out through my amp and mic it, especially if it's like a Rhodes sound or something.

The only time I use a lot of MIDI is when I'm doing projects for work. For those, I usually use drum samples, sometimes bass samples, and I record the guitars with AmpliTube or some other plug.
 
So here is my process with my current rig (with some ideas on how i'll use the gear I intend to buy.)

1. I start with the song pretty much arranged in my head. I know where my choruses are and where my solos will be (if I'll even have them.) I probably don't know all the harmonies yet, but I have some ideas.

2. If it's a clean cassette (I use a 488 mk II) I stripe it with SMPTE, if not, I find my starting time and annotate my track sheet with my start time, BPM, time signature.

3. I put up one mic and do a scratch acoustic/vocal take as an outline for the rest of the song.

4. Using this outline I program my drums (Hopefully someday I'll play live drums, but that's beyond me right now.)
4a. When programming I only use quantize to set the very first beat of each section. I do this because I tend to anticipate quite a bit and I need a clean down beat. The rest has no quantize and I play each part in live with a MIDI controller doing my best to "think like a drummer."​
4b. Once I have the whole song programmed I run it through with the scratch track to make sure it gels, and I run it through a few times without the scratch track and play to it, just to make sure I gel with it too.​

5. I record the drums, usually in stereo, but I do intend to use the stereo "+2" feature of my machine to get a better mix. I run the drums through my KRK RP6 monitors and mic them. I really think that this gives me a pretty decent drum sound with quite a bit of life to them. (oh, and I don't use any reverb until mix down.)

6. Using my scratch track as a refference I get my acoustc track/tracks down. Then move on to bass, and electric, and any other instruments that I may have. (I really love the shaker . . . cheesy I'm sure, but I dig it.)

7. When I hit six tracks I bounce down to stereo to open up more tracks. This is where I do my vocals.

8. At the point I'm done tracking, I go back and listen over and over again.

9. I've been mixing straight to stereo digital. But I inted to at least give the whole Hi-Fi VHS a try. I may move on to DAT or just a standar 1/4" mix down deck. From there it's into the computer and done.

With the exception of drums, all my tracks are live instruments. I would like to get a hardware sampler (like and Akai S2000 or something) but I'll probably use it mostly for stutter effects and such. But I may use it to get a certain sound like strings or something if I think it will sound right for the song.

I guess I didn't really talk about effects. I tend to add them at mix using outboard gear through the FX loops of my 488.


So that's my little process. My lack of gear means I don't vary too much from it. But maybe someday I'll have the gear to be able to say "will this song sound better on the 388 or the TSR?" But for now, it's my just me and my 488.


(Sorry it's so wordy, I'm done now.)
 
nate_dennis said:
(Hopefully someday I'll play live drums, but that's beyond me right now.)
Click to expand...

Hah Nate, first thing I did when I got out of hospital from 07's bike prang was to get in my car with a friend, go down to the music shop, buy a cheap drum kit, set it up in the attic then start to figure out how to play it. My justification was that I needed movement to aid the healing processes. I never took any lessons and I'm still not much of drummer but a couple of years on I'm happy with what I can do with it and how much better the things I record sound with the real thing (at least in my mind anyway).

I reckon it was the best musical relating thing I've done in the last decade. Learning drums and creating opportunities to play (or record) them is highly recommended by me (which means bugger all of course).

:):)
 
I usually compose in the traditional way, with pencil and paper…and either with an acoustic guitar or at the piano…or I may switch back-n-forth as I’m laying it down. The music usually falls in place pretty quick, then I’ll spend some time with a Thesaurus and rhyming dictionary getting all the lyrics worked out.
I avoid starting any tracking until I have the finished song.

Before I start to track, I lay down some scratch tracks. Usually that consists of me firing up my old Atari/Cubase combination (because it locks to my tape deck perfectly via SMPTE/MTC)…and I will find the BMP tempo of the song in Cubase and then spit out a Click from the Atari/Cubase (it’s actually triggering the Click from one of my synths) while simultaneously playing/recording a guitar and singing/recording the rough scratch tracks. Now I have a Click track and scratch vocal/guitar track on my tape deck.
(I usually pre-stripe my tapes with SMPTE before starting this process.)

Now it’s time to track for keeps…and that usually begins with the drums. My friend comes over and we lay down the drum tracks against the scratch tracks…to tape. The current SOP is to lay down the Kick to T1 and Snare to T2 and a stereo M/S pair of overheads to T3/T4. That takes up 4 of my 16 tape tracks which allows us to lay down three separate takes/song, which eats up 12 tracks, plus the 3 tracks that have the SMPTE, Click and Vox/Guitar)….so that’s 15 tracks of my 16 track deck. Sometimes I get fancy with the scratch vocal and guitar…and record them to their own tracks, which then fills up all 16 tracks.
We will normally track drums this way for three different songs per recording session....which takes up from 3-5 hours (with a lot of time spent BS-ing :) ).
I then dump all those tracks in one pass into my DAW (Samplitude)…and then after that, I’ll erase two of the three drum takes (tracks 5-12)….that leaves the four drum tracks, scratch, Click and the SMPTE, with 9 empty tracks on the tape. I like to record all my other stuff to the tracked drums, rather than just the scratch and Click tracks…but I also keep the Click going for everything, though I will adjust it’s level so it is not overpowering, and I usually pan it hard to one side.

I then proceed with tracking of other instruments…usually going either to a rhythm guitar or bass guitar…whatever feels better at that point...and from there continue with other instruments, normally doing all the rhythm/backing instruments first, and then the leads. Sometimes I may do my piano or organ parts before finishing up rhythm guitar parts…sometimes not. It’s all about the feel of the song at any given moment as I’m tracking…and my own mood.

Except for the stereo OH mics on the drums…I rarely record anything else with true stereo miking, though I have tracked my upright piano that way a few times…but now, I mostly use my Kurzweil electric piano, because honestly, it’s a PITA keeping the upright in tune! :D Besides, most of my piano parts are for Rock/Pop…so I don’t get hung up about not having that concert piano sound.
I will double-track some things or do track duplicates in the DAW (mostly for organ/synth stuff)...and then create pseudo-stereo tracks that way.
Anyway…I can get several instruments done on those 9 empty tracks…and once I have a couple of other tracks, I may erase the scratch track(s) at that point, as I know the song well enough and have plenty of other instruments to guide me.

I then move on to vocals and leads (in no particular order, just how I feel). If I’ve used up the empty tracks on my tape deck for instruments, I will dump the tracks to the DAW again, leaving a few for cue purposes while erasing some to make room for more instruments and vocals/leads.
I’ve usually not needed to do more than 2 transfers from tape to DAW in order to get all my tracking done…but I think on one song or two I may have had to do a third transfer for one or two more tracks. When it goes into the DAW, it’s all been locked/synced via MTC. In my setup, I let the DAW/Samplitude chase the tape deck…and it works perfectly….at least it’s good enough for R&R! ;)

After all the tracking is done and tracks have been all transferred to the DAW…I then edit/comp as needed…and that process is usually the most tedious for me and the most time consuming. My favorite part is the tracking, followed the mixing. A lot of guys hate tracking and enjoy mixing the most…but I really love the early stages of hearing the song emerge during tracking, and for me, that’s where most of the final mix is already happening…so by the time I get to editing and mixing, I’m pretty much just following through on an already established theme. I NEVER create the song or it’s “vibe” during editing or mixing…it’s all created during tracking, and the rest is just the fine-tuning process, which is why I like tracking the most. :cool:

Once edited in the DAW, I then use the DAW for playback (like a multitrack tape deck) and I bring 24 channels D/A out of the DAW and mix through my analog console, using outboard processing. The only “plugs” I use in the DAW are for “spot” EQs and small edits, but I never apply global EQ/compression/Reverb…while in the DAW. That is all done with outboard gear and via my console.
I mix down to a 2-track tape deck and simultaneously bounce the stereo playback output of the deck back into the DAW to capture the final stereo mix. I then use that for my “mastering stage”, though for me, the mastering has been mostly an experiment up to this point. I did my own mastering on the album I just finished, using the WAVES plugs linear EQ and L2 limiter across the mixes. I applied a lighter compression than what I could have done, preferring not to squash too hard as it has an effect on the overall tone…but I made the mixes loud enough to be close to commercial levels, needing only a couple of clicks of the volume knob to make them sound as loud as typical commercial releases when listening on most stereo systems.
I’m not sure if I will continue to “master” my own stuff or next time send it out. It was a LOT of work finding the right combination.


So that’s kinda my “process” reduced down as far as I can get it into a few paragraphs. :p
 
Very interesting. I enjoyed reading your in depth description. You lost me at one point, so let me refer to your words and then ask . . .

miroslav said:
Once edited in the DAW, I then use the DAW for playback (like a multitrack tape deck) and I bring 24 channels D/A out of the DAW and mix through my analog console, using outboard processing. The only “plugs” I use in the DAW are for “spot” EQs and small edits, but I never apply global EQ/compression/Reverb…while in the DAW. That is all done with outboard gear and via my console.
...
I mix down to a 2-track tape deck and simultaneously bounce the stereo playback output of the deck back into the DAW to capture the final stereo mix. I then use that for my “mastering stage”
Click to expand...

So you mix down to tape, but you also create a stereo track in the digital world. Cool, got it. But then you say you master from the digital. So why are you mixing down to tape? Or did I misunderstand? Are you mixing to tape, then bringing the stereo recording from the tape back to digital?


Anyway, sounds like a cool setup. Are you doing all of your digital stuff on that Atari? That's badass. I need to get one, but no funds right now. Thanks for the fun read.
 
I mixdown to tape, but while the tape is recording it is also playing back (record head - playback head)...so I'm taking the output of the playback and simultaneously recording it back into the DAW to a fresh set of tracks so I can have a digitized version for the mastering step.
If I was not doing my own mastering, I would send the 2-track tape to a mastering house and let them create their own digitized version.
When I'm done...I have a stereo mix on my tape deck and also in my DAW. The tape version gets put away for safety (so does a copy of the digitized non-mastered mix and also one of the final mastered mix.)

Follow?

Sure...I can first record to 2-track and THEN playback the tape from the deck and record it into the DAW...but I just do it this way to skip one step. Same output either way.

The *reason* for mixing to tape...is to get some tape flavor into the stereo mix. That way I have tape going into the tracking...and tape at the mixing stage...but the editing is done in the DAW and so is the mastering.
Getting all those tracks mixed down stereo on tape creates a certain type of cohesiveness...all those electrons and magnetic particles get smashed together. :cool:


AFA the Atari...NO...I don't do my digital audio with that.
The Atari is an old computer with the original Cubase sequencer-only MIDI software.
I use to use it back in the 90s for MIDI sequencing when I was heavily into that...but these days the Atari/Cubase only gets fired up occasionally when I want to lay down some clicks.
Do I need to even use it?
No.
I can record a click to tape a bunch of different ways, but 1.) I've done it that way for so long that it's just a simple (no brains) process I can do with my eyes closed, and 2.) I get a kick out of firing up the Atari/Cubase from time to time...on its 13" monochrome monitor! :D
It's still a neat little sequencer, and if I WAS to need a bunch of MIDI sequenced tracks triggering my synths/keys....I would probably use the Atari/Cubase combination, as it is very familiar to me….though I’ve not been using very much of my MIDI/synth gear these days, preferring to record more “roots” style Rock/Pop instruments.
The organ is done with a real Hammond miked up…and my Kurzweil electric piano is played and recorded direct to tape…and not as a MIDI sequence. I’ve only use some synths on occasion…and since they are only smaller parts, rather than sequencing them, I just play/record them to tape and then I can quickly/easily edit their timing & position once I transfer them into the DAW. No need to “sequence”.

But AFA my audio DAW...that's a PC computer running Samplitude. :)
I have 24 channels of A/D and D/A conversion available to me…which is how I move things in and out of the DAW and mix via analog console and outboard gear.
 
miroslav said:
Sure...I can first record to 2-track and THEN playback the tape from the deck and record it into the DAW...but I just do it this way to skip one step. Same output either way.
Click to expand...


So you're saying that they sound is the same as if you played it back off the tape on a sepereate pass? Cool. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
 
If your deck has seperate Record and Playback heads...yes...
...if only one head for both, then no...you would want to first record and then playback.
 
I started a thread like this a few months ago and got some good responses, I'll see if I can dig it up for ya.
 
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