M
mcolling
New member
Does anyone follow similar steps each time they mix? Or does it change each time?
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
Similar almost to the point of identical as far as steps go. I worked out a method that works great for me.
M
mcolling
New member
yeah, so what is it? or is it a secret...
L
LRosario
New member
I think for me it just depends on the song.
I real fan of unconvetional technique, meaning that if someone does it one way, I'll try it every other way.
If someone sends me a song, or I handle the music from the begging, I'd have to listen to what the song does to me as a whole. After that, I'm in the zone.
But risking that I'll give away alot of my technique, I'll just say, "mix to what sounds good".
I real fan of unconvetional technique, meaning that if someone does it one way, I'll try it every other way.
If someone sends me a song, or I handle the music from the begging, I'd have to listen to what the song does to me as a whole. After that, I'm in the zone.
But risking that I'll give away alot of my technique, I'll just say, "mix to what sounds good".
M
mcolling
New member
you folks are being awfully secretive! i sincerely doubt that telling what order you mix in is going to jeopardize your sound or career.
come on!!!!
come on!!!!
Ronan
New member
Push up all the faders.
start panning.
start getting rough levels.
do a bit of subtractive EQ if needed.
Start dialing in compression and gates if needed.
more work on steps 2,3,4 and 5.
I usually do not use any FX or do any EQ boosing until I am about half way through the mix.
start panning.
start getting rough levels.
do a bit of subtractive EQ if needed.
Start dialing in compression and gates if needed.
more work on steps 2,3,4 and 5.
I usually do not use any FX or do any EQ boosing until I am about half way through the mix.
L
LRosario
New member
mcolling said:you folks are being awfully secretive! i sincerely doubt that telling what order you mix in is going to jeopardize your sound or career.
come on!!!!
Alright, but if you tell anyone, I'll have to kil....nah man, of course I'll be willing to share some info. After all, that's why I even spend some time everyday on this thing...it gets the gears going before the long work day.
Anyway, my procedure in any studio:
1) Set the coffee machine for overdrive
1.2) Lock the door and make sure to shut off anything that will be distracting (Just make sure not to try and shut off your significant other, it's difficult, I've tried)
1.5) Faders up to unity
2) Calibrate all my outboard gear (if I'm working with outboard gear) and set my monitoring levels
3) Make sure to have all tracks grouped and sorted properly
4) Pan out all my tracks to my personal tastes
5) Listen to the song one last time before I get knee deep in work
6) Listen, edit and mix drums
7) Listen, edit and mix bass
8) Listen, edit and mix anything percussive
9) Listen, edit and mix guitars along with any keys, synths, strings, etc
10) Bring up all tracks as a whole and get a basic mix going
Total time: 30min to an hour
If the client is willing to shell out the good money then I continue to mix the ultra fine details, then go deeper into editing techniques and any creative extras that will give that particular edge.
Total time after that: 8hours-12 hours
Final step: Collect money, get in car, go to a strip club or something that dosn't envolve music.
M
mcolling
New member
Thanks!
So, you two do your panning first, eh? I've heard in the past some people recommend mixing in mono first, in order to catch phase issues. However, I guess this would be during the recording stage more so, since by the mixing stage you can't really do too much.
So, you two do your panning first, eh? I've heard in the past some people recommend mixing in mono first, in order to catch phase issues. However, I guess this would be during the recording stage more so, since by the mixing stage you can't really do too much.
D
Drummerdude1989
New member
i'd like to take the question an extra step, seeing as i am an ulltrraa mixing newb, sorry if i should make my own thread, i'm a bit of a forum newbie too. When you're adjusting panning and levels and stuff, do you guys listen to the whole song and adjust while you listen or do you stop at certain points and change things, and im guessing you dont keep the levels the same through the whole song, they change right, diff. things are louder at diff. parts, right? I guess i really need just a total like break down of the process for a total idiot, if there's already a thread about this or something i missed i'd be glad to read it.
EDIT: nevermind i found it, im an idiot, its here if anyone wants it:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=141081&highlight=mixing+tutorial
its great.
EDIT: nevermind i found it, im an idiot, its here if anyone wants it:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=141081&highlight=mixing+tutorial
its great.
L
lol
New member
I do often like that :
To manage levels and pans I proceed like that
1) unmute the lead : it's the main thing no ?
2) pan, mix the drum without kick, as it is one single instrument it need to be in a group...
3) add the bass, the kick make them sound together at a similar level, roughly
4) add the rest of rythmic : guitar, keyb.
Do the levels for all this people together, roughly and try to listen song from beginning to the end, always , looking after clipping. And when you catch one, low either the note, or the whole track...
When no clipping occurs anymore read the highest level reached on the master and adjust to avoid to much headroom. Stay -2 db max.(you've not put the reverbes)
5)Do the Eq. Listenig all together. And try to lighten the sound by lowering some freq : maybe strings dont need bass...
6) unmute every other track one by one and pan-gain them.
I dont listen, edit, pan instruments separately. Its a waste of time, and maybe, you'll do mistake. When you're rehearsing can you make the balance alone ? I know the drummer do that and takes a long time with the sound ingeneer but it is because of the mics and their number. And remember, whatever you do alone, when drummer says "1,2...1,2,3,4" you are never at the right level. So you look at the ingeneer and pump up the imaginary volume
with your fingers.
And even if you've done that, when people are there, it's all bad ! And if you've forget that and put you're gain at max at the previous step, then you dont hear you and cannot put up the level. So you look at the ingeneer, and pump up the volume in front of the audience...
7) Try a reverb (in stereo I used Wave trueverb). Basiccally I imagine if I need 2, 3 or 4 maybe row of instruments in the real life :
- singer on center the nearest of me
- behind keyboard, bass, guitar
- behind Congas Drum
So I need 3 rows : I plug 3 Trueverb , choose the dimension of the room and put singer at, say, 9 ' the keyb at 12', the perc at 15'. Like in the real world.
This is for Stereo.
About mono : it's true : sometimes the song is listen on cheap radio and mainly, if you record stereo tracks (keyb etc) with chorus or things like that, sometimes the whole instrument will come from the bathroom on mono radios. So record in mono (or on 2 separates tracks at least) each source : it is simple and 99 percent of the time you wont have problem in Mono, Stereo, neither in Surround. But if you're adding afterwards chorus on mono sources, you'll have to check in mono at the end of the mix also...
But I'm now moving to 5.1. And its a new world. The main advice I could give for preparing future mixing in 5.1 is :
- forget stereo takes. All keyboard come now with stereo, all guitar FX as well. Record them in mono. (what is also useful in 2.0 as a lot of problems occurs with stereo tracks). And if you really need 2 tracks : congas for example record tracks separately, not interleaved(2 mono tracks). Why ? You cant pan Left+Right interleaved stereo track on Left and Center for example.
So in 5.1 you'll got left congas at full left, and right congas at full right, as if the percman was 18' large, or all in mono at center.
But I'm waiting for advice if I'm wrong, as I'm a home-studist...
To manage levels and pans I proceed like that
1) unmute the lead : it's the main thing no ?
2) pan, mix the drum without kick, as it is one single instrument it need to be in a group...
3) add the bass, the kick make them sound together at a similar level, roughly
4) add the rest of rythmic : guitar, keyb.
Do the levels for all this people together, roughly and try to listen song from beginning to the end, always , looking after clipping. And when you catch one, low either the note, or the whole track...
When no clipping occurs anymore read the highest level reached on the master and adjust to avoid to much headroom. Stay -2 db max.(you've not put the reverbes)
5)Do the Eq. Listenig all together. And try to lighten the sound by lowering some freq : maybe strings dont need bass...
6) unmute every other track one by one and pan-gain them.
I dont listen, edit, pan instruments separately. Its a waste of time, and maybe, you'll do mistake. When you're rehearsing can you make the balance alone ? I know the drummer do that and takes a long time with the sound ingeneer but it is because of the mics and their number. And remember, whatever you do alone, when drummer says "1,2...1,2,3,4" you are never at the right level. So you look at the ingeneer and pump up the imaginary volume
with your fingers.
And even if you've done that, when people are there, it's all bad ! And if you've forget that and put you're gain at max at the previous step, then you dont hear you and cannot put up the level. So you look at the ingeneer, and pump up the volume in front of the audience...
7) Try a reverb (in stereo I used Wave trueverb). Basiccally I imagine if I need 2, 3 or 4 maybe row of instruments in the real life :
- singer on center the nearest of me
- behind keyboard, bass, guitar
- behind Congas Drum
So I need 3 rows : I plug 3 Trueverb , choose the dimension of the room and put singer at, say, 9 ' the keyb at 12', the perc at 15'. Like in the real world.
This is for Stereo.
About mono : it's true : sometimes the song is listen on cheap radio and mainly, if you record stereo tracks (keyb etc) with chorus or things like that, sometimes the whole instrument will come from the bathroom on mono radios. So record in mono (or on 2 separates tracks at least) each source : it is simple and 99 percent of the time you wont have problem in Mono, Stereo, neither in Surround. But if you're adding afterwards chorus on mono sources, you'll have to check in mono at the end of the mix also...
But I'm now moving to 5.1. And its a new world. The main advice I could give for preparing future mixing in 5.1 is :
- forget stereo takes. All keyboard come now with stereo, all guitar FX as well. Record them in mono. (what is also useful in 2.0 as a lot of problems occurs with stereo tracks). And if you really need 2 tracks : congas for example record tracks separately, not interleaved(2 mono tracks). Why ? You cant pan Left+Right interleaved stereo track on Left and Center for example.
So in 5.1 you'll got left congas at full left, and right congas at full right, as if the percman was 18' large, or all in mono at center.
But I'm waiting for advice if I'm wrong, as I'm a home-studist...
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
Well now. It seems that I have something to work on....
distortedrumble
all up in yo grill!
mine changes up everytime but it usually involves levels, panning and effects
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
Here's my technique for rock n roll, which is 95% of what I mix. I vary as needed but this is the gist of it:
*Bring the bass drum up
*set the BD compression attack as long as it can go and the release for as quick as it can go.
*Start lowering the attack time until I hear the sound start to dull. Back off a bit.
*Start raising the release time until I see the reduction meter just hit 0 at the time of the next drum hit.
*bring up overheads, mess with BD compression ratio, threshold, and EQ.
*Do all of the above for snare, toms
*Bring up all faders.
*pan instruments
*Fader/Compress/Eq bass guitar (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/Eq vocals (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/EQ rythmn instruments (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/EQ lead instruments (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/EQ extra instruments (if needed)
*send drums to aux bus
*compress the hell out of drum aux
*Eq drum aux with smile curve
*Bring up level of drum aux to taste
*Bring up any room mics used in tracking
*Add any effects if needed
*Add bit of compression to master bus (so sue me, I like the sound of it dagnabbit!)
*final tweak individual track to fader levels/EQ
*Bring the bass drum up
*set the BD compression attack as long as it can go and the release for as quick as it can go.
*Start lowering the attack time until I hear the sound start to dull. Back off a bit.
*Start raising the release time until I see the reduction meter just hit 0 at the time of the next drum hit.
*bring up overheads, mess with BD compression ratio, threshold, and EQ.
*Do all of the above for snare, toms
*Bring up all faders.
*pan instruments
*Fader/Compress/Eq bass guitar (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/Eq vocals (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/EQ rythmn instruments (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/EQ lead instruments (if needed)
*Fader/Compress/EQ extra instruments (if needed)
*send drums to aux bus
*compress the hell out of drum aux
*Eq drum aux with smile curve
*Bring up level of drum aux to taste
*Bring up any room mics used in tracking
*Add any effects if needed
*Add bit of compression to master bus (so sue me, I like the sound of it dagnabbit!)
*final tweak individual track to fader levels/EQ
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Ronan said:
Great advice from Ronan. A lot of budding engineers immediately start by soloing out the kick drum, EQing it, then soloing next channel, etc.
Someone (I forget who) once said that the solo buttons should be removed from mixers. The reason being that it is the interplay between everything that matters in a mix, not how it sounds individually.
Try mixing by pretending you are at a live concert and running the sound board. You will hear how the elements interact, masking effects, levels, and spatial interaction much better that way.
P
pweaver
New member
I for one have had great success taking the Bob Clearmountain approach.
Once I've listened to the song several times and really gotten the feel for it
as far as style, mood etc . . . I SOLO the vocals and start the mix with acapella
soloed vocals. I just let the sink in and then add effects if needed (typically rev. and / or delay)
and let the vocal track become an instrument on its own with effects that fit the vibe and mood (sometimes no effect and completely
dry is great) I then add in guitars, keys, any pad type parts and make sure they're NOT stepping on the vocal.
I proceed to build the song around the vocal, usually doing drums last (even though I've been a professional drummer for years).
my two cents worth.
Once I've listened to the song several times and really gotten the feel for it
as far as style, mood etc . . . I SOLO the vocals and start the mix with acapella
soloed vocals. I just let the sink in and then add effects if needed (typically rev. and / or delay)
and let the vocal track become an instrument on its own with effects that fit the vibe and mood (sometimes no effect and completely
dry is great) I then add in guitars, keys, any pad type parts and make sure they're NOT stepping on the vocal.
I proceed to build the song around the vocal, usually doing drums last (even though I've been a professional drummer for years).
my two cents worth.
junplugged
Taking the slow road
Listen to the Beatles, listen to my recorded tracks, give up.
B
Benreturns
New member
I second that emotion. Each song i mix comes with at least 2 bouts of depression...
Seriously: i start with all the faders up on the same level and genrally spend time playing about with different levels, sussing out which levels need to hit harder using EQ and compression. Sussing out what sounds nice with a little reverb a bit of delay, an isolator - whatever (this can take a few weeks, about 3 hours per week spaced out - I always do it in short sharp bursts before i lose my objectivity).
Then when the serious stuff begins i always start with the vocals. Always. I build the song around the them. Then balance them with the drums/percussion. Then fill in the blanks around that.
Seriously: i start with all the faders up on the same level and genrally spend time playing about with different levels, sussing out which levels need to hit harder using EQ and compression. Sussing out what sounds nice with a little reverb a bit of delay, an isolator - whatever (this can take a few weeks, about 3 hours per week spaced out - I always do it in short sharp bursts before i lose my objectivity).
Then when the serious stuff begins i always start with the vocals. Always. I build the song around the them. Then balance them with the drums/percussion. Then fill in the blanks around that.
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
Mix drums first. Then mix guitars and bass together then any other hi end instruments. (vocals, keys etc)
Then mix bass and kik together.
Then mix everything together.
Use solo to get rough fx settings for tracks then fine tune fxs and levels simultanoeusly. A vocal distorter used lightly can give really nice results and bring a vocal out but letting it sit well in the mix.
Mixing bass and guitar together is good for fixing lo end problems.
Also mixing bass and kik together can ensure the kik doesnt get smothered by the bass and also sorts out lo end issues.
You can place a limiter on the master output so you can push the level of the mix up when bouncing so the drums dont peak the master output. The louder the signal the better quality the sound (with digital anyway). Think about it, the loweer the signal then the less bits that make up that signal. The more bits then the higher the quality. Thats why lots of pros use 24bit rather than 16bit.
32bit float wil probably be better, but takes up like 3 times the amount of memory as 16bit i think. But storage is becoming pretty cheap these days. I heard you can get 200Gig for just more than £100!!. brilliant
Then mix bass and kik together.
Then mix everything together.
Use solo to get rough fx settings for tracks then fine tune fxs and levels simultanoeusly. A vocal distorter used lightly can give really nice results and bring a vocal out but letting it sit well in the mix.
Mixing bass and guitar together is good for fixing lo end problems.
Also mixing bass and kik together can ensure the kik doesnt get smothered by the bass and also sorts out lo end issues.
You can place a limiter on the master output so you can push the level of the mix up when bouncing so the drums dont peak the master output. The louder the signal the better quality the sound (with digital anyway). Think about it, the loweer the signal then the less bits that make up that signal. The more bits then the higher the quality. Thats why lots of pros use 24bit rather than 16bit.
32bit float wil probably be better, but takes up like 3 times the amount of memory as 16bit i think. But storage is becoming pretty cheap these days. I heard you can get 200Gig for just more than £100!!. brilliant
ecktronic
Mixing and Mastering.
check out this site for cheap 200GB storage.
http://www.shopgenie.co.uk/search/quicksearch.html?q=storage++hard+drive+200GB&kpartnerid=8909723
http://www.shopgenie.co.uk/search/quicksearch.html?q=storage++hard+drive+200GB&kpartnerid=8909723
Light
New member
Well, it is always different.
But basically, I start by listening to everything faders up.
Then I listen again.
If it is something I didn't record, I listen again, and then go through and make a track flow of everything, so I know what I am dealing with.
Then I stop and take a break. It is important to take a break every now and then. It helps your ears keep fresh, and actually makes things go much faster.
While I am on my break, I think about how I want it to sound. My first concern is usually the vocal, at least on a pop or rock recording. Then I think about the primary instrument, whatever it is (guitar, piano, accordion, whatever). Where do I want them panned, what do I want them to sound like. Does it need reverb, and if so do I want to use just one, or a couple different types, or does it want just a bit of delay, or should it be really dry, or what. All of that shit.
At any rate, when I get back from my break, I start by bringing up the lead vocal and the primary instrument. I want these two things to interact together as best as possible. So I take my time here. Where do I want things panned, what kind of levels, what kind of EQ does it want, rough ambience (reverb, delay, distortion, whatever).
Once I have all of that roughed in, I start to bring in the other instruments. Usually bass first, then drums, then all the rest.
The big differences between me and most people I know is that I HATE the standard panning that most people do, and I rarely use more than one reverb (usually a plate, a real one if I can get it). I much prefer mono drums, and will frequently put the vocals at least a little off center. I try to give each instrument their own space in the stereo spectrum.
As for reverbs, I usually use only one. The lead vocal (or what ever I want to have up front) will go straight in, and everything else will go through some amount of a delay before being sent to the reverb, which in effect lengthens the pre-delay, sending the sound further back. It seems, to my ear, to help things blend together better.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
But basically, I start by listening to everything faders up.
Then I listen again.
If it is something I didn't record, I listen again, and then go through and make a track flow of everything, so I know what I am dealing with.
Then I stop and take a break. It is important to take a break every now and then. It helps your ears keep fresh, and actually makes things go much faster.
While I am on my break, I think about how I want it to sound. My first concern is usually the vocal, at least on a pop or rock recording. Then I think about the primary instrument, whatever it is (guitar, piano, accordion, whatever). Where do I want them panned, what do I want them to sound like. Does it need reverb, and if so do I want to use just one, or a couple different types, or does it want just a bit of delay, or should it be really dry, or what. All of that shit.
At any rate, when I get back from my break, I start by bringing up the lead vocal and the primary instrument. I want these two things to interact together as best as possible. So I take my time here. Where do I want things panned, what kind of levels, what kind of EQ does it want, rough ambience (reverb, delay, distortion, whatever).
Once I have all of that roughed in, I start to bring in the other instruments. Usually bass first, then drums, then all the rest.
The big differences between me and most people I know is that I HATE the standard panning that most people do, and I rarely use more than one reverb (usually a plate, a real one if I can get it). I much prefer mono drums, and will frequently put the vocals at least a little off center. I try to give each instrument their own space in the stereo spectrum.
As for reverbs, I usually use only one. The lead vocal (or what ever I want to have up front) will go straight in, and everything else will go through some amount of a delay before being sent to the reverb, which in effect lengthens the pre-delay, sending the sound further back. It seems, to my ear, to help things blend together better.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi