What is this and why so much

  • Thread starter Thread starter gdavi1
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This one I know. It's a personal monitor mix system. Here's how it works (and how we use it, at least).

Direct outs from each channel on the mixer go to the Aviom rack units. (Even though our mixer is 32 channels, we only have 16 channels of Aviom in the rack, so we pick the most important of those for monitoring).

The audio from the direct outs are then converted by the Aviom rack unit into digital signals which are sent up to the stage by what looks just an ethernet wire. (It actually is the same wire, but in this case it's not being part of an ethernet network...but I digress...)

Once up on the stage, those 16 digital signals are distributed into little boxes that serve as 16 channel mixers/headphone amps. They're mounted on mic stands--one per player/singer.

Now everyone on the stage has their own personal monitor mix. (That's the obvious benefit; almost as cool is that the sound guy doesn't have to go crazy trying to please everyone with just one or two monitor mixes).

The drawback is that you have to use headphones or in-ear monitors--some folks I play with just can't handle the isolation from the room, so they don't use 'em. Which means the sound guy still has to mix monitors--but for fewer folks.

Real world scenario: I play bass in my church. The stage is a hollow platform and resonates way too much with an amp cranked up. So no amp at all. I go direct with a Sans Amp and monitor myself in my Aviom. Nice thing is I can turn myself up and really hear what I'm doing. We also have a channel just for kick drum, so I can crank that even more than the rest of drums and stay in the groove with it.

Just as nice is that I can turn down the channels I need less of--second keys, background singers, and focus on the core stuff.

Sorry for being so long winded, but this is what I know of the Aviom gear.
 
okay thank you very much that was a very good explanition
it makes sense
but seems like alot of money for it
 
This takes the Aviom system one step further by not requiring a mixer at all since it also has preamps on it. The aviom system is great for bands using in ear monitors. With actual wedges though it can turn into a disastor pretty quickly.
 
I seem to recall an argument... excuse me, "discussion", somewhere around here within the last few days where someone suggested that outboard gear in studios start using ethernet, and then someone countered saying that there was no way digitized audio channels of any substance (say, 32 or 64 channels), could be sent to and from a console and computer even over gigabit ethernet. Perhaps they were referring to the data transport protocol that the audio gets converted to, but don't digital snakes serve as a proof of concept in regard to this?

(I am not taking into account the exact execution of the technology, nor am I referring to its merits, just whether it would be possible to create an analog console that has CAT-5 connections, and converts digital signal to analog for all channels and back again when it send it back to the computer)
 
cusebassman said:
just whether it would be possible to create an analog console that has CAT-5 connections, and converts digital signal to analog for all channels and back again when it send it back to the computer)
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Yes- but it would not be ethernet... Looks as though this system used A-Net protocol over Cat-5 (which is merely a cable quality spec Catagory 5)...

I'm pretty sure that we'll see a standard develope for this... it would be nice to have digital route switching on the endpoints between equipment... You'd be able to rewire your entire studio sitting in front of your computer keyboard.

Damn... that's too good of an idea... someone has to have done it already...
 
MOFO Pro said:
Yes- but it would not be ethernet... Looks as though this system used A-Net protocol over Cat-5 (which is merely a cable quality spec Catagory 5)...

I'm pretty sure that we'll see a standard develope for this... it would be nice to have digital route switching on the endpoints between equipment... You'd be able to rewire your entire studio sitting in front of your computer keyboard.

Damn... that's too good of an idea... someone has to have done it already...
Click to expand...

Yea, I figured it would be a lighter-weight protocol, since you don't need quite as much information travelling along with a signal if it is staying within a small domain (locally between a console and outboard gear, for example).

I think the main issue would be the fact that any outboard gear you want digitally wired in would have to process the digital signal directly, or have a D/A conversion -> process in analog -> A/D conversion -> back out again setup... which grossly violates the axiom that most recommend no more than 1 A/D/A conversion during audio processing. In the case where you have outboard gear that processes in digital, the only advantge there is that the device has its own processor for any work that is going to be done to the signal, whereas a plugin uses the computer's CPU for processing.
 
Yup... but we're closely approaching the point where all audio gear will be equipped with digital I/O... so yeah... into the box from source performance (or dynamics inserts) while tracking should stay analogue... but any sends or returns or other siganal routing during mix down could stay in the digital realm.
 
MOFO Pro said:
Yup... but we're closely approaching the point where all audio gear will be equipped with digital I/O... so yeah... into the box from source performance (or dynamics inserts) while tracking should stay analogue... but any sends or returns or other siganal routing during mix down could stay in the digital realm.
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So the idea would be that all this outboard gear would, in fact, be all-digital processors.

Guess you'd still have to manually wire in any outboard analog stuff :)
 
Rane is also making some stuff that transmits over CAT 5 cables.
 
Anyone mind if I hijack this thread for a second? I'll be looking at monitoring alternatives for my band later. Nothing for a while but eventually. I've so far wanted in ear monitoring but haven't really understood how the package deals from shure and such work.

This item though it exactly what I'd love to have. But yeah I'll never be able to spend that kind of cash :P. So my question is. What's the low end for set ups like this? I've noticed that even getting just a basic single in ear set up is like $700 per person. Or am I missing something easier?

Oh yeah, the main question I had. How do you set up something like this anyway?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...0-Wireless-Personal-Monitor-System?sku=270237

Would you have to have a mixer with individual outs to come back to the stage? Would you plug in to this box first and then daisy chain to others, then send to the mixer? I'm sure it's simple but I just don't see how it fits into the signal chain.
 
cusebassman said:
So the idea would be that all this outboard gear would, in fact, be all-digital processors.)
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Dynamics might be tough... if you want to compress for effect in the analogue realm you'd have to do it on the way in... or suffer the additional conversion... same with EQ , but effects processors (reverbs, autotune, etc) would be right at home in the digital environment actually allowing you to omitt the conversion process ad/da in and out of the box to outboard gear for the wet signal (or both depending on design)...
 
They have them in my church.

They don't really seem to help the people much. They aren't all that talented (and I certainly can't do better), but all that equipment gets them excited.

We are glorifying the Lord, and that's all that matters.


If I were up there playing (or singing), I'd say no thanks to the monitoring system. I don't want to know the bitter truth.
 
Almy said:
Oh yeah, the main question I had. How do you set up something like this anyway?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...0-Wireless-Personal-Monitor-System?sku=270237
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Looks like you can monitor two different audio sources at once... two individual paths through the transmitter base. The manual shows a vocalist setup where the mic goes into channel one of the wireless base, then out channel one to the mixer input... then mixer output (monitor send) goes to channel two input on the wireless transmitter... you can adjust the vocal and monitor levels independently... doesn't look too tough
 
I guess where I get lost is how that goes to the other band members' in ear setups. In other words how could that signal chain then be applied so that the drummer can adjust how much guitar he hears.

Then again maybe it can't at all, and I would need a more expensive setup. But then again if it can't I wouldn't see the value in being able to adjust only yourself.

Edit: I'm guessing I should just call shure and bug them with questions :P
 
Almy said:
Then again maybe it can't at all, and I would need a more expensive setup. But then again if it can't I wouldn't see the value in being able to adjust only yourself.
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Yeah, well kind of... The drummer couldn't adjust the amount of guitar he hears... but if you grouped the drum channels together and sent that out an aux to the drummers wireless system and then added the monitor mix on the other channel... the drummer could balance himself against the rest of the performance... That's the difference between an $800 and $16,000 monitoring system... it's a compromise
 
MOFO Pro said:
Dynamics might be tough... if you want to compress for effect in the analogue realm you'd have to do it on the way in... or suffer the additional conversion... same with EQ , but effects processors (reverbs, autotune, etc) would be right at home in the digital environment actually allowing you to omitt the conversion process ad/da in and out of the box to outboard gear for the wet signal (or both depending on design)...
Click to expand...

Well, if you were sending the individual tracks out through the analog board for final mixing, you could patch any analog effects and dynamics, etc., in at that stage, after any digital stuff has been set. Best of both worlds!
 
MOFO Pro said:
Yeah, well kind of... The drummer couldn't adjust the amount of guitar he hears... but if you grouped the drum channels together and sent that out an aux to the drummers wireless system and then added the monitor mix on the other channel... the drummer could balance himself against the rest of the performance... That's the difference between an $800 and $16,000 monitoring system... it's a compromise
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I thought the individual base stations for each person on stage allows them to set levels on the 16 individual channels sent out. What was the issue here initially?
 
cusebassman said:
I thought the individual base stations for each person on stage allows them to set levels on the 16 individual channels sent out. What was the issue here initially?
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He was answering one of my questions about something that wasn't the good setup.
 
gdavi1 said:
okay thank you very much that was a very good explanition
it makes sense
but seems like alot of money for it
Click to expand...

Try pricing it out in analog gear, and also consider the space and weight of an analog rig and it's actually pretty cheap.:)
 
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