rayc
retroreprobate
Phrygian hell, this is so assoteric that I need a G & subtonic to calm down.
rayc
retroreprobate
Phrygian hell, this is so assoteric that I need a G & tonic to calm down.
LI_Slim
voice in the wilderness
this is one of my favorite threads ever. the way I look at it is, "there are many different kinds of 2's"
D
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
another $ .02
i agree... wholeheartedly...LMAO... there are all kinds II's... but there's the rub... cause there's only thre kindsa neapolitans... french/italian/german and they still are all dom7th and still go to the V.... hehhehhehhehheh
i agree... wholeheartedly...LMAO... there are all kinds II's... but there's the rub... cause there's only thre kindsa neapolitans... french/italian/german and they still are all dom7th and still go to the V.... hehhehhehhehheh
up-fiddler
Taming the World--for now
dementedchord said:
Vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry? I scream..
..must be heavy metal.
famous beagle
Well-known member
dementedchord said:
This is incorrect. You're talking about augmented 6th chords -- not a Neapolitan chord.
A Neapolitan is a triad built on the bII step that usually resolves to a V chord after a I chord in second inversion.
The Neapolitan chord is usually in 1st inversion, so the the note in the bass would usually be the 4th scale degree.
In this example, you'd usually have an F chord with A in the bass, then an E minor chord with B in the bass, then a B (or B7) in root position, then an Em maybe.
But ... rules are broken as much as they're adhered to in music, and what he's written is basically a Neapolitan-eqsue sound --- basically a bII chord. It's made into a major 7, which is not that big of a deal since the 7th of the chord is E and is in the key of Em.
And secondary dominants don't have to resolve to where they're supposed to in order for them to be called secondary dominants. The term for that in "non-resolving" secondary dominants. You see these ALL OVER.
Progressions like:
I - II - IV - I
I - III - IV - I
are good examples of non-resolving secondary dominants.
So ... basically, there's no technically exact way to describe what he's written, but it's closest to say it's a Neapolitan chord, which is, at its essence, a bII chord (usually in a minor key).
As demented pointed out, it's definitely not Phrygian because of the Gmaj7. It's Em, and the Fmaj7 is a non-diatonic chord (in this case, best described as a Neapolitan sound).
up-fiddler
Taming the World--for now
The primary scale ascends vertically. Aaaaaahhhh! (Falling off cliff) The noise made on the way down is Phrygian. The impact at the bottom will definately be major as opposed to minor. The echo is really an effect which carries no affect on the overall dysfunctional scale.
Have a good day worry about what it sounds like...
(Falling off cliff) The noise made on the way down is Phrygian. The impact at the bottom will definately be major as opposed to minor. The echo is really an effect which carries no affect on the overall dysfunctional scale. Have a good day worry about what it sounds like...
D
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
well not sure where you studied theory but it doesn't agree with mine... (prof was mentored by piston) and i left out the inversions cause it was hard enough to take it already.... but youve come closest so....
tell him what he's won johnny!!!!
"first you'll be wisked away to exotic tehran on alqueda air......"
tell him what he's won johnny!!!!
"first you'll be wisked away to exotic tehran on alqueda air......"
famous beagle
Well-known member
dementedchord said:
Well I studied at the University of North Texas, but that's hardly even the point. If you do a simple search online even, you'll find plenty of information on Neapolitan chords, and you won't (or at least shouldn't) find them intermingled with augmented 6th chords, because they're not the same thing.
A Neapolitan is not a dominant chord; it's just a triad built off bII. You may be confusing it with the augmented 6th chords because it's sometimes known as the "Neapolitan 6th." But this is because it's usually in first inversion, which in theory is represented with a 6 after the Roman numeral (bII6 --- the "6" should be a subscript, but I can't do that here).
The augmented 6th chords are where you get the tritone principle you mentioned. It's been a while, but if I recall correctly the French is the one that is the same a tritone away. It's a 7b5 chord (which is enharmonic with a 7b5 chord a tritone away).
If memory serves:
Italian contains the notes b6, 1, and #4 of the key.
French contains b6, 1, #4, and 2 of the key.
German contains b6, 1, b3, and #4 of the key.
The German is just basically a dominant 7th built off the bVI degree.