What is talent?

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Frankie Rage

Frankie Rage

getting on with it anyway
There is often a "clash of swords" (pens?) in these threads with respect to the "musical theory vs. talent" argument. It's easy to define musical theory, there are whole shelves in libraries full of great material, and Wiki too, but....

In relation to writing songs, lyrics and music, what is "talent" and what part does it play in the process (if any..)

I would be very interested in ALL and ANY views on this topic, which would be close to my heart, IF I HAD ONE! ;)
 
I suppose not having to read these threads and just doing it!
 
In popular use, we tend to associate talent with a natural (i.e. something you were born with) aptitude for a particular activity. For example, most people would agree that Tiger Woods seems to have an innate ability to play golf exceptionally well.

The nature versus nurture debate has been going on for decades, and is not likely to be solved here. My leaning is towards people having natural aptitudes in particular areas that give them certain advantages; take Kenyan runners, for example.

Nevertheless, it is one thing having an aptitude, and another being able to use it . . . and, using Tiger Woods again, it is unlikely that he would have achieved the success he has without considerable training. Similarly, Australian swimmers do pretty well. This could be innate, but it could also be because of a climate that encourages swimming. But the best swimmers, no matter what ability they are born with, have punishing training regimes to put them at their peak.

But, we should recognise that 'talent' is not an indivisible entity. The ability to perform well, or to write good songs, employs many different skills. A great performer, for example, requires such skills as motor co-ordination, internal rhythm, breath control, pitch control, a high degree of empathy for the lyrics, a high degree of empathy for the audience, an ability to develop a rapport with the audience . . . and so on. Different performers have different measures of these, with some skills more fully developed than others.

For song writing, a vast array of skills are needed: good wordcraft, a large vocabulary, an ability to translate images, emotions and experiences into language, an ability to create memorable melodies and hooks for the listener, and so on.

Some people can do bits of this more easily than others. Some people are really good at coming up with ideas . . . but then don't know how to turn them into songs. Others aren't so good at coming up with ideas, but once given the seed, can create something interesting from the merest hint.

We can create difficulties for ourselves when we use phrases such as 'musical talent', because, though convenient, they disguise the complexities involved. For example, I would assert that to play a guitar, you need hand-eye coordination, dexterity, discernment (amongst others), but these are the same skills you need to craft a fine piece of furniture. What makes one person become a guitar player, and another a furniture-maker? I suspect that different people's brains are wired in different ways, and this pushes them into areas that they seem to have a resonance with.

In the end, I think talent is a fairly well developed array of a range of skills, couple with a natural inclination to use these skills in a particular way.
 
Thanks for that reply gecko, (both of them;)) as always!

Had your studio been in London, or anywhere in the UK for that matter, I'd have been around with a crate of beer/wine/whiskey/water before now!

Frankie :)
 
Salieri had technique. Mozart had talent- a double dose. He was something like 4 when he picked up a violin for the first time and was playing a concerto an hour later. You can't train that into someone. It comes from God, or the gods, or a happenstance of genetics, depending on your frame of reference. Whatever it is, I don't have it, so I think I'll go back to the Salieri school of hard knocks and hard work.-Richie
 
buit I don't think being a doctor requires talent - more knowlegde

I expect we will end up agreeing to disagree.

I think that every successful professional displays a mixture of talent (keeping in mind what I said earlier about talent), knowledge, wisdom and experience.

Some formula 1 racing drivers seem to have a talent for understanding the relationship between their car, its behaviour on the road and the performance of their engine. They can radio back to the pits and say "I need about one degree more on the front wing" (or whatever). Others don't have this; they radio back and say "there's something wrong with the car".

Some doctors are brilliant at diagnoses. Of course, knowledge plays a part. But so does the ability to assimilate many observations and synthesize these into one of a number of many possiblities.

Musicians, like doctors and any other profession, are not exempt from needing talent, knowledge, wisdom and experience.
 
Salieri had technique. Mozart had talent- a double dose. He was something like 4 when he picked up a violin for the first time and was playing a concerto an hour later. You can't train that into someone. It comes from God, or the gods, or a happenstance of genetics, depending on your frame of reference. Whatever it is, I don't have it, so I think I'll go back to the Salieri school of hard knocks and hard work.-Richie

Totally agree RIchie. It's a gift, wherever it comes from.
 
Talent is a marked innate ability, as for artistic accomplishment.

Music theory is the field of study that deals with how music works.

There is no "musical theory vs. talent" argument because the two things don’t correlate.

If you want to try to relate the two, then music theory is the horse and talent is the jockey.

It comes down to a matter of degrees. How much talent and how much theory one possesses will determine how far one can take it.

And a million other variables.

My 2 cent wisdom.
 
but I suppose even Robert Johnson stil had to learn to play the guitar
 
If you want to try to relate the two, then music theory is the horse and talent is the jockey.

Nice analogy . . . but what if it was the other way around?

Like talent is the horse, and theory is the jockey?

That way you get this idea of talent representing a potential, and theory being one way of harnessing it.
 
buit I don't think being a doctor requires talent - more knowlegde

Speaking as an RN, that's just wrong. Surgery in particular is an art. You can read and memorize all the books on brain surgery you want, but don't come near me with knives and dremel tools!-Richie
 
yes surgery of course, but I thought he meant your regular doctor telling you you've got the flu
 
Nice analogy . . . but what if it was the other way around?

Like talent is the horse, and theory is the jockey?

That way you get this idea of talent representing a potential, and theory being one way of harnessing it.

I was paraphrasing the old saying "Education is the horse, experience is the jockey"

But okay, your way - how does this lead to an argument?
 
to me, talent is simply an unstoppable desire to learn something. Because one is unstoppable, they will get there and others will say "wow do they have talent". Walter
 
My wife took 8 years of Royal Conservatory piano training. While she plays, I have heard numerous people say "I wish I was that talented" or some such thing. But - If you pull away the sheet music while she is playing, she has to stop, because she has no idea what to play next. She cannot learn a song by ear. She cannot just "sit down and play something". She cannot jam with anyone or improvise a musical phrase.

I never learned anything beyond the most basic music theory. I can (no, MUST) play by ear. I taught myself guitar, bass, drums and piano. I can sing a little. I can sit in and play with almost anyone, blues/jazz/rock/country/whatever, and not make an ass of myself. I have just recently started to write, and some people think the songs are pretty good.

So, to compare, I would say that I have "musical talent", and my wife does not.

She has plenty of other talents, though.

-Mike
 
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