What is my songwriting like?

  • Thread starter Thread starter HazzerX
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True as in about 25% of what you say. But there are plenty of songs all about me me me. Just look at Emimnem.And what about Pink? Every song almost!!! I actually think hes onto something that will grow. 10 for trying Hazzer!
fat_fleet said:
Want some constructive crit? Write something that's not about you. This is very selfy. I counted 32 direct or implicit "I"s and "me"s, and that's without the 16 or so "I'm still awake"s that close out the tune. That bring your total into the mid 40s. "music is always dragged down by the notion that others care about the singer's "unique" and "complex" feelings. Really most of us don't wanna hear it and, for me at least, you putting it all out there in that warbly Tracy Chapman voice is kind of cringe inducing. Your next assignment is to go beyond yourself and your little life. Tap into your imagination. Invent stories, people, places...set yourself free!
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grimtraveller said:
You didn't hijack it, neither were you argumentative. You put forward a valid viewpoint which has much to commend it.
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I felt a bit bad, the kid's only 14 or something, I remember what it was like at that age. Didn't want my comments to put him off writing, or for him to think I was attacking his excellent efforts. Kid plays better guitar than me. I still agree with the initial comments regarding the I's, but it's totally cool given his age. And at the end of the day, you are the ultimate master of what you choose to write about. You made some interesting points, good food for thought, as usual. :D
 
My songs now are no different than they were when I was 14. They might actually be worse now.
 
Don't think I realized the kid was 14 when I initially posted here. I do kinda feel like I stomped on his sand castle now.

Pretty sure he plays better than I did at that age.
 
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davidnyc64 said:
I agree that if you're writing to connect with an audience, then writing about things that people can relate to is key. If you're writing about personal experiences like Tom Chapin's "Cats in the cradle" it can be powerful whether you relate to it or not. What I mean by no rules is that there really isn't a right or wrong. Write about what moves you, spiritually, emotionally etc. If people can't relate, then so be it. Not every song has to be for an audience.
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There is nothing wrong with writing I. Take James Taylor's "Sweet Baby Jane": "I woke up this morning, and I wrote down this song, I just can't remember who to send it to."

The song has lots of I's and me's, here is the difference, he is letting you participate in a conversation. While it is about him and his thoughts, he is including the listener in a more intimate relationship. I think that is the biggest difference than just bitching or crying and forcing someone to listen to it.

End of the day, throw it out there and see if folks like it. It really isn't a matter of good or bad, just a difference on who likes or not. Even if 1 person likes it, that is still good.
 
DM60 said:
End of the day, throw it out there and see if folks like it. It really isn't a matter of good or bad, just a difference on who likes or not. Even if 1 person likes it, that is still good.
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I think too much emphasis is put on other people liking songs. I know, that's the way it always is. "Here's my song, hope you like it". I don't look at it that way. In fact, I think that's pretty weak. I look at it like this:

Visual artists don't hinge all of their self-worth on being "liked", so I don't understand why music artists do. Visual artists typically focus on portraying an idea or emotion in a way that satisfies themselves. It's like they have to get it out of their system. They don't seem to focus on being liked. They focus on accurately portraying their ideas. Sure, if someone likes it, then awesome. That's not usually the goal though unless they're simply trying to make some money.

With musicians, they have this overwhelming need to feel accepted, appreciated, adored, etc. Success is defined by sales and/or popularity. Musicians generally are insecure and weak. Many of them make music for others, and not for themselves. I find it very very hard to believe that people like Justin Bieber and Pink actually likes the vapid pop shit they churn out. They like the adoration, the fans, the money for sure, but the music? No way. No self-respecting true artist would be lame like that. It's most prevalent in the mainstream area. But then there's the guy that pours his heart and soul into his music really hoping to be liked. He wants others to share his art. He believes in what he's doing, but still has this desire to be appreciated. That's pretty strange to me too. Why? Why are musicians so desperate to be appreciated? Why do you think your music is so fucking important that others just have to like it too? That's silly.

So, I take this approach with my own stuff, and it's a really dickish way to go but that's how I am:
This is my song. I wrote it exactly the way I want it to be. It can't be improved. It can't be changed. It is exactly perfect in every way because it's my song and that's how I wrote it. If I'm happy with it enough to let you hear it, then it's certainly good enough for anyone. You are free to think whatever you want about it. But this is how it is. If you like it, then wonderful. If you hate it, then that's okay too. Outside opinions will not change anything about my songwriting.
 
Greg_L said:
I think too much emphasis is put on other people liking songs. I know, that's the way it always is. "Here's my song, hope you like it". I don't look at it that way. In fact, I think that's pretty weak. I look at it like this:

Visual artists don't hinge all of their self-worth on being "liked", so I don't understand why music artists do. Visual artists typically focus on portraying an idea or emotion in a way that satisfies themselves. It's like they have to get it out of their system. They don't seem to focus on being liked. They focus on accurately portraying their ideas. Sure, if someone likes it, then awesome. That's not usually the goal though unless they're simply trying to make some money.

With musicians, they have this overwhelming need to feel accepted, appreciated, adored, etc. Success is defined by sales and/or popularity. Musicians generally are insecure and weak. Many of them make music for others, and not for themselves. I find it very very hard to believe that people like Justin Bieber and Pink actually likes the vapid pop shit they churn out. They like the adoration, the fans, the money for sure, but the music? No way. No self-respecting true artist would be lame like that. It's most prevalent in the mainstream area. But then there's the guy that pours his heart and soul into his music really hoping to be liked. He wants others to share his art. He believes in what he's doing, but still has this desire to be appreciated. That's pretty strange to me too. Why? Why are musicians so desperate to be appreciated? Why do you think your music is so fucking important that others just have to like it too? That's silly.

So, I take this approach with my own stuff, and it's a really dickish way to go but that's how I am:
This is my song. I wrote it exactly the way I want it to be. It can't be improved. It can't be changed. It is exactly perfect in every way because it's my song and that's how I wrote it. If I'm happy with it enough to let you hear it, then it's certainly good enough for anyone. You are free to think whatever you want about it. But this is how it is. If you like it, then wonderful. If you hate it, then that's okay too. Outside opinions will not change anything about my songwriting.
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I think there's a subtle difference between wanting to be loved/liked and pursuing your art. I find it too simplistic to say that the true artist {or visual artist} does what they do and doesn't care what anyone thinks because if that were really true, there'd be no point in 'putting it out there' for people to listen to/view. Anyone that puts there stuff out there wants others to hear/listen to it. It's not at all weak to hope people like your stuff. What's weak is when one changes one's way of writing because of what the listeners like or don't like or incorporating things that listeners like {unless you've got good reasons for doing so}. Listen to the music and take it from there. You either like it or you don't.
Situations like HazzerX's are difficult because in some situations, feedback from outside parties can be useful. Personally, I don't need them but I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't interested in what people thought because I am. On the other hand, if someone doesn't like a song of mine, that's their prerogative. I don't like some songs of mine !
But creating songs is an entity that has a communicative dimension. So for me it's something of a paradox rather than a contradiction ¬> you'd like people to like your work but it doesn't matter if they don't. If they do like, it's 'nice' but you're not creating because you want people to. Therefore you're free to create as you like. As the artist you have absolute freedom to write and create as you desire without restrictions from the audience but their feelings and views are not irrelevant or unwanted, just uninfluential. My self worth does not hinge on whether someone like one of my songs. Everyone has the freedom to their opinion as far as I'm concerned. And I have the freedom not to be knocked for 6 by it !
 
davidnyc64 said:
Hey Fat_feet, i appreciate your point of view. We all have different ways of expressing our thoughts and opinions. i felt that yours was a little harsh, maybe you don't think so. Comparing cooking to song writing, although an interesting comparison is not really the same thing. Maybe Hazzer was looking for song writing tips on song structure or something else, it's really not fair to critique the subject matter. I too was looking for critiques on song structure and lyrical content. I'm not a professional and I'm always looking for new ways to write. If you read my lyrics and asked why are you writing about that or that? That's not what I'm looking for. Maybe we're not understanding each other but that's ok. We all have opinions and that's what makes sites like this so great. Read your critique again, maybe you'll see what I'm saying.
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nah .... if someone is gonna ask for opinions on his songwriting the reviewer is just as free to say what they think as the artist is to write what they want. And no .... you don't get to ask for critiques and then also say what those critiques have to be.

For the record .... I don't agree with fat_fleet about the 'I' thing .... as DM60 has pointed out .. very many great songs are focused on 'I' and 'MY' thoughts on the issue etc

As for advising fatfleet on how this site works ..... I notice you have 14 posts and joined a few month ago while fat ( is he fat? does he have a fleet?) has been here a few years and has critiqued hundreds of songs here ..... he knows how it works here.
yes ...... some people here are all kissy kissy and encouraging and never say anything negative while others are blunt and say what they think even if it is negative.
The artist gets to choose which ones he thinks are relevant. Personally I prefer blunt opinions ..... I could give a crap about someone carefully wording things so I'll accept it. Others may prefer a softer touch while even others explode in rage at the slightest suggestion that their song isn't the most awesome thing ever. But regardless ..... you're going to get all sorts of reviews if you ask for them ...... don't like some of them? Too bad.
 
Most songs do have I me or my in them. Not that it's good or bad. That's just how it is.
 
Greg_L said:
Most songs do have I me or my in them. Not that it's good or bad. That's just how it is.
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My first impression of this statement is that, left to me, I would be inclined to agree.
 
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