What is my audience? (is there an audience for this?)

[Ardeus]

I know that this is as far from mainstream as possible, but I'm sure there's an audience for this kind of stuff... I just don't know what audience is it and even less how to get to them.



Any help to point me in the right direction is very welcomed.

 

[MrUserNameIV]

There's a market for anything, especially these days. There's not much of a point in trying to make your music palatable for everyone unless you've got a major label budget and umm. . . that's your goal. Music made that way, though, is usually suffering in substance, since it's very hard to make something profound that literally everyone will like. Have you tried marketing to avant-garde or spoken word crowds?

 

[Ardeus]

Thanks. I didn't know about "spoken word" crowds. I will look into that.

 

[Pinky]

... it's very hard to make something profound that literally everyone will like.

I don't think this is entirely true. There's musicians surviving on their music alone that write profound lyrics and don't try to be/sound like everyone else. They are the minority of what's commercially available, but they do exist. I would go further to say that this statement is a fallacy because you're suggesting that ALL popular music appeals to "literally everyone", which is entirely untrue (hyperbole). I don't know of a single musician, movie, painter, architect, etc that have 100% universal appeal.

As far as this... style... it's definitely performance art, not sure if it would be further classified beyond that. I found it difficult to enjoy because it wasn't particularly interesting musically, performance wasn't exceptional vocally, and lyrically I had a hard time not just making everything out but connecting the dots to bring meaning to the presentation [this likely could be solved with a better recording or amplification of the performance?]. The projections were okay I suppose, but struck me as something I'd enjoy tripping and not taken seriously as part of a larger exhibit. [though the youtube video had the top half of the screen cut off, not sure if I was able to fully appreciate it based on only 50% showing]

Putting everything together just felt forced, like it was trying to be gimmicky stuffing all these elements together. Does that make sense?

 

[Ardeus]

Thanks for the honest criticism Pinky.

The youtube video has english subtitles.

I don't care much about the film, it hardly relates to the music, so I agree with you, it just makes the performance odd.

On the other hand, it's the film that allows me to book performances because it's part of film festivals selections. It's a "seal of quality". People see the laurels on the poster and they think that it must be worth something.

But I love the music.

Sometimes you create something and you love it immediately. This was not the case. These 6 songs grew on me like nothing else I have ever done.

I am arriving to the conclusion that unfortunatly, they are not good for a live performance, because if it took time for me to get into them, how can I expect anyone else to get them with one audition (the live performance)?

I think I should have notes distributed at the entrance to help the audience understand what is going on. I think that if you take the time to hear the songs a few times, you can understand what's going on without the notes, but you do need them if you're going to hear them only once.


1 - "a key" is an antidote for suicide, memories of things and actions of a good and beautiful world.

2 - "do it" dives straight into the subject of suicide, bordering schizophrenia.

3 - "passing trees" is the result of reading about a man who set himself on fire on a high speed train in japan.

4 - "you're a friend" is the vision of a man watching his own funeral, looking at the people he chose to have around while he was alive.

5 - "leather and cork": someone is planting a spruce of cork oak on top of his younger brother's ashes, as he requested.

6 - "was that a smile?": someone finds a person who is about to jump off a bridge and tries to persuade him/her not to do it. by chance, they both discover that they know the poem "not waving but drowning", by stevie smith.

If you had read this before, would it have changed your opinion significantly?

 

[Nola]

I think your audience would be pretentious or depressed people who like sad songs and movies. That's not an insult, but that's just who your audience would be. So probably hipsters. I think you should try to team up with some local hipsters and film places and see if they'll let you play it. You're never going to have a large audience with that, but you might have a cult following depending how much attitude (think Warhol) you can emote.

 

[mjbphotos]

Thanks for the honest criticism Pinky.

The youtube video has english subtitles.

I don't care much about the film, it hardly relates to the music, so I agree with you, it just makes the performance odd.

On the other hand, it's the film that allows me to book performances because it's part of film festivals selections. It's a "seal of quality". People see the laurels on the poster and they think that it must be worth something.

But I love the music.

Sometimes you create something and you love it immediately. This was not the case. These 6 songs grew on me like nothing else I have ever done.

I am arriving to the conclusion that unfortunatly, they are not good for a live performance, because if it took time for me to get into them, how can I expect anyone else to get them with one audition (the live performance)?

I think I should have notes distributed at the entrance to help the audience understand what is going on. I think that if you take the time to hear the songs a few times, you can understand what's going on without the notes, but you do need them if you're going to hear them only once.


1 - "a key" is an antidote for suicide, memories of things and actions of a good and beautiful world.

2 - "do it" dives straight into the subject of suicide, bordering schizophrenia.

3 - "passing trees" is the result of reading about a man who set himself on fire on a high speed train in japan.

4 - "you're a friend" is the vision of a man watching his own funeral, looking at the people he chose to have around while he was alive.

5 - "leather and cork": someone is planting a spruce of cork oak on top of his younger brother's ashes, as he requested.

6 - "was that a smile?": someone finds a person who is about to jump off a bridge and tries to persuade him/her not to do it. by chance, they both discover that they know the poem "not waving but drowning", by stevie smith.

If you had read this before, would it have changed your opinion significantly?

I've always understood that if you have to explain your song (or you need a guide), then it could be done better. The best music speaks for itself and lets the listener interpret it based on their mindset.

 

[Ardeus]

Hi Nola. It wasn't my intention at all to be pretentious, although I can see that the performance can be perceived as such. It's not a subject to be treated lightly. I was hoping that because it's an unusual subject, a lot of people would be interested. I guess I was wrong.

This was the first time I performed and I know for sure that I can improve a lot if I have the chance to perform this again. I am going to try to book a performance in the nearby village

Mjbphotos: some of the lyrics are not obvious, but if you listen and read them a few times, you will understand what's all about without need for any explanation. In a live performance where no one has heard the songs before, there's not a chance for that. That's the reason I think these little notes may help.

I wanted to make something that reveals itself a little more everytime you hear it. I love music like that.

I didn't think about performing live when I made this songs, it was an afterthought.

 

[andrushkiwt]

...but you do need them if you're going to hear them only once.

Why assume that anyone is going to listen to anything multiple times? We're all lucky if someone takes the time to listen ONCE! Requiring them to listen multiple times, over and over, until they understand what's going on is a wasted opportunity, in my mind. Hit them from the start and give it your best shot...it will likely be your only one. Usually, people come back because they like something, not because they didn't understand it the first time. Just my thoughts

 

[VomitHatSteve]

Yeah. Market it to the avant garde/art crowd. I might also recommend trimming it down a bit. In my experience audiences have the patience for 20-30 minutes by a conventional band they've never seen before but only 10-15 minutes of something really weird or abrasive they've never seen before.

 

[Ardeus]

Andrushkiwt: That's true for over 90% of people. I think that only a handful of musicians in the world can expect to have their music scrutinized like that.

I don't hear much music, but when I hear something that intrigues me, I normally search more music from the person that made it. Maybe the opening song is in fact the worst to get people's attention.

I sent the video of the whole performace to a few places to try to book more gigs. I see now that I should have made a trailer instead, with the more interesting parts.

VomitHatSteven: Thanks for the suggestion. I open the piece with a lullaby and it would be better to skip it and go directly to the 2nd song. Thanks.

I will also sign up to a few groups on facebook along the lines you suggested.

The video that I posted here is only part of the show. After "Suicide suite" I have a much stranger and darker piece with 15 songs with 60 minutes. Unfortunatly I didn't film it.

But you want to know something? In my other youtube channel I have underwater videos, mostly short, but the video with the most views is an unedited dive with over 1 hour. Go figure...

For me, this is hobby, if I can break even and perform for a few tens of people, I'm happy. I would be much much happier if I could make some profit

 

[Ardeus]

There really is a market for everything:

 

[Nola]

Yeah. Market it to the avant garde/art crowd. I might also recommend trimming it down a bit. In my experience audiences have the patience for 20-30 minutes by a conventional band they've never seen before but only 10-15 minutes of something really weird or abrasive they've never seen before.

I think it's more like 10 to 15 seconds, tbh. If we're lucky someone gives our music a 30 second to 1 minute listen. But usually something has to catch the ear immediately.

Why assume that anyone is going to listen to anything multiple times? We're all lucky if someone takes the time to listen ONCE! Requiring them to listen multiple times, over and over, until they understand what's going on is a wasted opportunity, in my mind. Hit them from the start and give it your best shot...it will likely be your only one. Usually, people come back because they like something, not because they didn't understand it the first time. Just my thoughts

Andru is right.

OP, you need to perform this live for hipsters. When you say the village do you mean NYC? That would be your audience, IMO. Knowing the songs were so depressing didn't help me, btw. And there is a market for almost everything, but not everything. A lot of it has to do with how you market yourself. Take Warhol -- he wasn't exactly a great artist but he acted like one and made himself seem important, so people gravitated to it. You're very unsure of yourself, which isn't good for marketing this type of act. You should pretend it's awesome and you're uber confident even if you don't believe any of that!

 

[andrushkiwt]

I sent the video of the whole performace to a few places to try to book more gigs. I see now that I should have made a trailer instead, with the more interesting parts.

I didn't watch the video but, automatically, that idea seems like the way to go. If they want more, they'll ask.

 

[Ardeus]

This was the first time I performed live and I'm sure that the next time I will be more convincing and be more at ease to try different ways of presenting myself.

I thought about wearing black make up around my eyes, creepy clothes, but I decided to present myself closer to what I am normally. Probably not a good decision.

Maybe I should try to present myself in more dramatic way, like the photos I used for the advertisement of the show.


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I live in Portugal and when I said village, that's exactly that: a small village. The show in the video was in Lisbon. I will try to see if I can book one or 2 shows in London with the help a friends.

 

[andrushkiwt]

I'm not experienced or marketing or advertising, but I think that's a pretty sweet looking promo.

 

[fat_fleet]

This was the first time I performed live and I'm sure that the next time I will be more convincing and be more at ease to try different ways of presenting myself.

I thought about wearing black make up around my eyes, creepy clothes, but I decided to present myself closer to what I am normally. Probably not a good decision.

Maybe I should try to present myself in more dramatic way, like the photos I used for the advertisement of the show.

Have you thought about doing more songs about rainbows and/or puppies?

 

[Ardeus]

I just did one this afternoon!

 

[Pinky]

I think your audience would be pretentious or depressed people who like sad songs and movies. That's not an insult, but that's just who your audience would be. So probably hipsters. I think you should try to team up with some local hipsters and film places and see if they'll let you play it. You're never going to have a large audience with that, but you might have a cult following depending how much attitude (think Warhol) you can emote.

Nailed it. Exactly what I failed to fully articulate.

 

[MrUserNameIV]

I don't think this is entirely true. There's musicians surviving on their music alone that write profound lyrics and don't try to be/sound like everyone else. They are the minority of what's commercially available, but they do exist. I would go further to say that this statement is a fallacy because you're suggesting that ALL popular music appeals to "literally everyone", which is entirely untrue (hyperbole). I don't know of a single musician, movie, painter, architect, etc that have 100% universal appeal.

Let me expand on what I meant. I just mean that there are too big a variety of tastes and interests, especially in the age of the internet to make something that everybody will like. It's not impossible, but most of the time, if you try to go into music with that goal, you'll either be very frustrated by the people (who are GOING to exist) that don't like what you do, or you will have to make the music generic and unchallenging so that it doesn't turn off any potential listeners. There are, of course, people who do luck out and make something that just happens to be liked by almost everyone, but even then, not everyone's going to like it. . . and that is extremely rare. I suspect, also that the people who succeed at that aren't always TRYING to make something everyone likes, it just works out that way. My overall point is that there's nothing wrong with making music for a specific audience, and it's not a bad thing if someone's music doesn't appeal to everyone that hears it. I talk to a lot of musicians who get really upset or offended or down on themselves when they encounter people who don't like their music, and I think it's a shame: If they've managed to find AN audience and that audience likes what they do, I would consider that a success in and of itself.

As far as this... style... it's definitely performance art, not sure if it would be further classified beyond that. I found it difficult to enjoy because it wasn't particularly interesting musically, performance wasn't exceptional vocally, and lyrically I had a hard time not just making everything out but connecting the dots to bring meaning to the presentation [this likely could be solved with a better recording or amplification of the performance?]. The projections were okay I suppose, but struck me as something I'd enjoy tripping and not taken seriously as part of a larger exhibit. [though the youtube video had the top half of the screen cut off, not sure if I was able to fully appreciate it based on only 50% showing]

Well, back again to audience. It doesn't appeal to you, but you might not be the right audience for it.

Putting everything together just felt forced, like it was trying to be gimmicky stuffing all these elements together. Does that make sense?

All that said, that one's a pretty good critique.