What is it like recording with a pc?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JeffT
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If you or a friend could build your PC you can put together a nice recording machine for well under $1000, assuming you'll just keep your current monitor.

PIII-700 - $200
256MB PC133 RAM - $120
40GB UDMA/66 HD - $200
case/power supp. - $50 (or even less)
CD-ROM - $30
keyboard/mouse/FD - $50 (the cheap stuff, you can pay more)
AGP video card (nothing special) - $50
cheap PCI sound card - $20 (all analog in/out for recording can go through the nice MOTU/Delta)

Total: $720

You might also want a modem or network card, and you could even add a CD burner and stay under $1000. Man, I had no idea RAM had gotten so cheap lately - I might have to get some myself.
 
Just about any PC sound card you buy will have a MIDI interface, so I wouldn't worry too much about that when you're buying an audio interface.
 
Studiomix

Bassman: The reason why studiomix is not popular is because I don't think it has any 1/4" or XLR inputs - everything is MIDI or digital.

Eric
 
Hey Diragor, where are you getting your RAM from? The prices I am seeing are about double that... your cpu price seems a little bit low also.

If you are looking for a good cheap basic soundcard in addition to whatever interface you buy, you can get a Creative Labs Soundblaster Live value edition for about $60. Should co-exist fine with your recording interface, give you a MIDI port, and allow you to play games and such.
 
Actually, you can get the PIII-700 a little cheaper than I thought - around $180 from a bunch of internet places. Check out http://www.pricewatch.com . To get many of the prices you have to mention pricewatch when you order. I've had good experiences ordering from computer123.com, where they have the PIII-700 for around $193.50 (OEM - it's $197.50 retail boxed) and 256MB PC133 SDRAM for $151. You can get a 128MB stick for $66.50. I go there all the time for CDRs - 50 for $9 (haven't hit a bad one yet, either).
 
The cheap memory is CAS 3 unregistered 4 layer high noise bunko. Great if 128MB or maybe 256 is as high as you ever anticipate going. But then again if you're short on memory then some of the cheap stuff is better than not enough of the slightly more expensive stuff. Don't skimp here though, it's simply not worth it.

And don't skimp on your power supply either. Spend 30-40 bucks minimum on the power supply. A good rule of thumb is to over-do it a bit on the ol' power rating...that is, let's say your total load is around 200W (the average fairly-loaded PC)...a 300W power supply will be more effective in this range than a cheap 230W supply. Not to mention that cheap power supplies RARELY (I wonder if ever) supply all voltages within tolerance. I've seen MANY cases where video cards and memory have been blamed for irregular hickups...when in fact it has been that the system did not agree with a bunk power supply.

And you should also seriously consider using NT4 or 2000 over Windows98. Not only does NT offer better disk performance stats (some say 30% better...but...people tend to exaggerate), but you'll find that you crash 10X less if you have the "average" experience, even after months and months of heavy usage and frequent software installations/uninstallations.

Or you could avoid all this crap and go standalone. I just have to pipe up one more time to offset the pro-PC advocates. And in my defense, I was born inside a computer. I have a degree in computer science. I've worked as a systems analyst for 5 years and do freelance tech support (well, I used to...but then i realized that i don't like people...go figure). So my beef is not anti-PC, but anti-recording-on-the-PC. The future looks very very promising....but the present is simply "neat looking" and "cost effective", unless you can already afford the big boy stuff. I suppose it's all subjective though....and keep that "other" PC laying around for editing and such....nothing beats a computer for doing a quick fade or getting rid of nasty spots.

Just in case...I should mention that I still record on the computer and am planning to continue my adventures in this realm. But then again my machine and I love each other very much...in fact a typical project for me is around 12-24 tracks and I rarely have even a sputter or hiccup (Win2k)....oh, and I'm really really really cheap.

I'd still sell my mom for a real fader.

Slackmaster 2000
 
why dont you run all your outs to a mixer then, slack? use your machine like a tape deck with advanced track editing capabilities, and mixdown the old fashioned way? I do that sometimes, and it rules.

xoxox
 
Yeah, I might do that man...but then the PC itself becomes overkill (or a burden). And still not portable and more error prone than a standalone hard disk recorder.

money money money money money....sometimes i hate money...oops, hey i didn't say that if you were listening oh great god of money :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
SLackmaster has good points, but don't let that stuff scare you too much if PC recording interests you. I've never bought expensive memory (I usually go one step up from the bottom of the barrel) and I've never had an unstable system (although some would argue that any system running MS Windows is unstable :) ). I've also had some pretty fully loaded systems running just fine on a 230W power supply. You'll run out of IRQs before you run out of juice in most cases. So these are issues to keep in mind, but especially if you're going to buy a pre-assembled name-brand PC you won't have much to worry about.

The problem with going to WindowsNT or 2000 is compatability. The are no Win2k drivers for the MOTU 1224/2408 or I might be using it myself (I e-mailed them and they have no plans to support win2k at this time). On Windows NT (pre-2k) DirectX support is an issue, and that's important for plugins. I'm going with Windows ME for the best balance between stability and compatability. I've heard of other people having problems with Millenium though, so 98SE is the safest bet.

What audio input device are using with Win2k, Slack?

Btw, I'm working on that "not portable" thing. Found some PC rack mount kits and rack-mountable LCD screens, I'm thinking about making the ultimate mobile PC recording rig.
 
Driagor: Have you *ever* had problems with your computer recording? I've *never* had problems with my standalone. As a person who used to think PC recording was the cats meow, I can say without a doubt, that standalone is 1000 times better.
 
DirectX is not an issue on NT4. DirectX plugins only require the media runtimes, which are fully functional on NT4....see it's confusing because it's not the same thing as the DirectX gamers refer to. Microsoft basically crammed every damn multimedia option into the DirectX label....they've NEVER been good at naming things :)

I used to record on NT4, and now record on Win2000. I'm using consumer grade soundcards unfortunately, and I do agree with you completely about compatibility. However, there are good cards that have NT drivers.... gadgetlabs, lynxone, etc.

I also agree with you on the memory issue. For memory sizes under 256MB and using fewer than 3 sticks, just about any cheap memory will *usually* work. Recently, though, I've had some friends getting excited about this cheapo memory, wanting to stick a gig in thier systems. That, is not a good idea with the cheap stuff :) I too use the "one step up stuff" most of the time. I don't feel that $100 for 128MB is a bad price at all.

And I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm just adding my opinion to balance the load.

Good point about the rackmountable cases. I think ametth has one or was going to buy one......and I might use one for my next system. That would make moving things around much easier....now if only there was a cheap and easy way to secure the monitor.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hmmmm...

I am biased in this department for two reasons.

1- Clients pay me for the time they spend with me. I need nearly absolute dependability. I cannot have a CPU overload because the song NEEDED one more compressor on the clean guitar track, etc......With analog processing it is simple, you either have it in the rack to use or you don't. If you do, it is going to work and not make the whole mixing system crash or hiccup, etc.....

2- The current state of dsp is totally inadequate for great sounding multi-track mixing! Everybody is coming out with software and plugin's, but little of it has predictable results on the audio. I could elaborate, and some don't agree, but I have some decent analog gear to compare to and that is what I feel. :)

This is the bottom line. Like all things audio, you truely most of the time get what you pay for. Cheap low end digital is better then cheap low end analog any day of the week. Mid level digital is usually a tad better then Mid level analog. High end digital cannot yet shake a stick at high end analog.

Now, you have to ask yourself some pretty important questions before you go the PC route.

1- Am I computer literate?
2- Do I have the time to deal with the many issues I will face configuring the PC and software
3- Do I have the time to LEARN all this software?
4- Will the PC hardware supply adequate number of tracks for my production goals at a price that makes it attractive?
5- Do I have the patience to mix with a mouse (this one is very important to consider). Those little interface dealies still have latency issues that make their use nerve racking.
6- Is all digital going to deliver the type of sound I really want?

A good DAW, capable of 24 tracks of audio, and offering the better applications and plugin's and a GOOD soundcard (one with GOOD chipsets for the A/D/A conversion) is going to set you back quite a bit. The problem with this route is that you really cannot be assured that it is going to work right out of the box unless you purchase a Turnkey system from someone who specializes in making multi track DAW's. At least with hardware or standalone recording gear, it works. No hard drive throughput issues to deal with. No running out of RAM issues, no software configuration issues, etc, etc, etc......YOU REALLY NEED TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT! Mainly because you have to ask yourself if you are willing to spend all the time you will need to deal with learning the software and dealing with the hardware issues in a PC environment. At times, it is daunting.

A PC multi track solution may be right for you. But, if the above is not very attractive to you, then it will not be, and you will find that it hinders your aim, which I am assuming is to purchase stuff that you can hook up and start recording, with minimal effort. Stand alone gear offers that. And, with everybody abandoning their stand alone gear to go to PC, deals on good gear are out there, so really, the price is not going to be all that different.

Think of this too. If your software is not well designed, and has problems that make it prone to crash on your particular hardware setup, you are at the mercy of the software company for them to re-write the code. With analog gear, if something starts acting funny, you get it fixed. Takes usually less then a week for that to happen...:)

I could go on, but I will go on record here yet again and say:

PC multi tracking sucks really bad! I would rather have a Tascam or Teac 4 Track reel to reel and a Mackie 1202 and a Alesis 3630 and a Digitech Effects Processor for my multi tracking needs then to rely upon a computer and software for it. Really......

Make your choice wisely. A lot of the opinions you have recieved so far are heavily biased because it is coming from people who have only worked in the PC environment for multi tracking, or never work with more the say 8 track in the analog/stand alone environment.

ametth stated that he has used both and told you to go stand alone. I have worked both and would suggest the same. Slackmaster has pointed out many things that are worth considering too.

PC MAY be right for you, but all in all, I think if you go that route, we are going to see many more questions from you trying to deal with all it's drawbacks then if you went the stand alone route.

Good luck.

Ed
 
There are obviously many pros and cons both ways and lots of things to consider, but here's the single biggest reason I'm on a PC: budget. For the boatload of effects, the practically (for my purposes) unlimited number of tracks, the awesome editing capabilities, and high quality (relatively speaking) I'm getting on the PC would cost me hundreds or thousands more to achieve with standalone+outboard gear, considering I already had the PC (of course, you could build what I have for like $600 now). The only issues/problems I've had were software crashes, which seem to have gone away now that I've started using Logic Audio (Cool Edit Pro was the crashing app). If you know what you're getting into and you're already very comfortable working with computers, hardware and software for recording offers no more greater pitfalls than doing anything else on the computer. Good software rarely crashes, and if you make sure you have adequate hardware there will be no problems. Even with my cheap, lowly system (Celeron 375 (oc'd), 128MB RAM, 20GB hard drive) I've had not one single problem (other than picking the wrong software). "nearly absolute dependability" can be had with a PC.

PC recording is the only way I've done it on my own (since the Tascam 4-track days), but I've been in studios using other gear and I'm very happy with what I'm doing. I don't understand what sucks so bad about PC tracking, I can't imagine it being any easier. I fire up the software, I hit the little red button to record-enable the tracks I'm using, then I hit the record button. To punch, I highlight the area I want to punch over, roll the cursor back a measure and hit record (or I can do a manual punch on the fly, but I prefer automated). Really, I'm curious about the experiences that turned you off PC tracking, because I love it.

Oh, and DSP quality is a matter of opinion, but you can compare analog gear to other analog gear and draw the same kinds of conclusions about one being better than the other. I'm happy with what I'm getting for the money I've spent, and that's good enough for me. Actually, all things considered, I'm absolutely freakin' *amazed* with what I'm getting these days.
 
Interesting

I suspect that I've been behaving much like Jeff, slowly building funds for a PC recording solution while reading the myriad of opinions on this and other forums. However, it had never occurred to me to ask the question he did. Now that he's done in, my case of Hamlet indecision has intensified.

I quickly went and read up on the Yamaha AW4416. It looks pretty cool. I now have to weigh in with a couple of questions:

1) What are some other standalone systems in the 3K and much-under range that are "good"? What things should one look for in a standalone?

2) How do you get the stuff, the smack, the music, out of the standalone and into the computer if eventually you want to mix with the computer? Are there any compatibility issues you need to watch out for file format-wise, and platform-wise (pc v. mac)?

3) If it's likely that most of the tracking I do is 1 track at a time, with the occasional 4 at a time, is PC tracking really that aggravating?

Thanks,
wyastarr
 
RAM Cheap

Try this company for inexpensive hardware...I don't like to use the word "cheap"...Nothing is cheap anymore and you get what you pay for. Don't like saying good & used together, when I am talking about old music equipment, computer hardware, and cars...

http://www.tigerdirect.com
 
wyastar - I can't answer number 1, but I can take a stab at 2 and 3.

2) To get your recorded tracks into the computer (in multi-track form, rather than a single mixed track) you have two choices.

The first choice is to spend a few hundred (up to $1000+) for a multi-channel input device like the MOTU 1224/2408 or the Layla/Gina devices and some multi-track recording software. If you know you won't be going over 4 tracks it shouldn't be too expensive for the input device. At this point, I'm thinking why not just record right into the PC since you're already buying the bulk of the necessary hardware and software.

The other choice is to just use a regular sound card and record each track into the computer seperately and sync them afterwards in the software (you'll still need some multi-track software, obviously).

This page indicates that you will eventually be able to export wav files directly to a PC, but possibly requiring the use of a DSP Factory card (?). That's the impression I'm getting from the page, anyway.

3) You're going to get different answers on this one, but I have not found any aggrevation in PC recording. In fact, I'd say it's been quite fun and a very powerful, flexable way to work. The only difficulty is the learning curve with some of the higher-end software packages, but you could use something simpler if it meets your needs. Besides, that Yamaha thing looks extremely cool but doesn't look any simpler than the PC apps I've used.
 
Wyastar,
Other standalone recorders that are pretty cool in the same price range or cheaper are....

Roland VS1680 and 1880(i've heard they have really good effects,but a lousy instruction manual and steep learning curve,uses compression but most say they can't tell any compromise in sound quality).They also have several models for different levels of users.

Akai DPS16(don't know much about...it looks cool,has 16 faders,and I think it has 16 panpots but i'm not sure)
they also have a 12 track machine

Fostex VF16(very cheap for a 16 track machine.....around $1200 I belive,has less features than other machines,but worth looking into)

The above are all 16 track machines.All of those companies make lesser machines like 8 or 12 tracks which are less costly.It just depends on your needs.The Yamaha appeals to me because it has full fader automation(you can program the faders to move by themselves and save it to recall later),and built in effects and eq as well as built in cd burner.The Yamaha also offers something that I don't think any of the other standalones do....a bit of expandability.They have add on input/output cards.I think you can get an optical digital card for it that will allow you to export 8 tracks at a time to pc,but don't quote me on that cause i'm not sure I know what i'm talking about ;-).

Things to think about in a standalone are...number of tracks,number of simultaneous recordable tracks,number and type of inputs,are effects built in or do they cost extra,user interface(some have actual faders and pan pots for each track while others use shared faders and make you go through menus on the screen to adjust pan and eq),some use compression to save disk space..this can be good or bad,editing ability,and one thing important to me is support from the company as well as users because these machines can have a steep learning curve.

I know how you feel about the indecision.I've never really done any digital recording yet to speak of so it makes it a tough decision just trying to go on what people tell me.I'd say if at all possible,try it before you buy it ;-).I have been tinkering with some pc software,but not having a full duplex sound card makes it hard to get a feel of what it will be like to do multitracking.Plus so far when I try to apply effects in realtime,even on one track,the audio starts hiccuping incessantly in both N-Track,and Cool Edit Pro.So far,I don't like the feel of mixing on the pc,but I've gotten a taste of the editing capability and I do like that aspect of it.

best of luck,
JeffT
 
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