What is it like recording with a pc?

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JeffT

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Is it a pain in the ass?
I want to move up to digital from previously using a tascam 464 portastudio,and i've been having a hard time deciding whether to go with a standalone like the yamaha aw4416,vs1680,or a pc.(i want lots of in/out options and would like 16track capability)Now that the yamaha is out,i have read on a forum that it has some software bugs,and does not do export to wav yet(supposed to in a software upgrade).It also does not support full wave-form editing capability at this time.So I was kinda dissapointed since i've been anxiously waiting its release for sooo long.
I would like a new pc for games and internet use,....and if I go pc i will need it to do audio and my other playing around too,to avoid alot of config troubles I will probably have it built and configured for me for audio.Thinking of getting a real powerhorse with the delta1010 card or one of the motu cards 8in8out.

My specific questions are,has anyone here used both standalone and pc,and if so what do you think is the best choice for a home studio for mostly guitar based rock music?


What kind of outboard gear is it going to take if I go pc?I'm thinking maybe a Mackie 1602(i've heard the pre-amps are good on these),or maybe the yamaha 01v or the tascam digital mixer.I don't know much about mixers aside from the portastudio type,so I'm just taking a shot in the dark as to what I need for an 8in8out studio.I hope to be able to mix down and master inside the pc(i already have a cd burner).I already have a halfway decent monitoring system.


What's the best software for tracking(under 600$ hopefully)?I am not real interested in midi at this time except for syncing up my drum machine or a keyboard to the recorder which is something I'll need to be able to do.I have tinkered with n-track on this machine,and it has hung up on me several times...especially when I try certain plug ins,like pitch shifting.But I would imagine i'd have better luck on a more powerful machine.This one is just a pentium 233.


Has anyone here had any luck buying a Dell or Gateway and using it for a DAW?


Any advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks alot,
JT
 
JeffT said:
Is it a pain in the ass?
Click to expand...

Yes.

As a person who tried both,and given your situation. I would go standalone. Just my opinion.
 
Recording on the PC is like sticking a tree trunk up your ass. Painful, error-prone, rude... with maybe a few satisfying moments.

Editing on a PC rules...but tracking is lame. Go standalone if you can afford it.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I disagree completely about tracking on the PC, if you're using the right software. There are better programs for mixing (by far), but Cool Edit Pro (for example) is a blast for tracking. It's almost as easy as using the old Tascam 4 track machines (without all the annoying track bouncing). The software automatically finds the drivers for the MOTU unit, you pick an input channel for each track and hit the "record" button, that's it. I've sat there many times while doing a 5 or 6 take punch-in, clicking back through all the takes to audition them, thinking, "damn, this is so cool." Also, you have a lot of flexability. If you have the means there are boatloads of different software and hardware combinations you can use on a PC. You're bound to find at least one piece of software that suits your needs well. You can get a demo version of Cool Edit Pro from http://www.syntrillium.com to see how easy it is. That's a good one to start with, but like I said there are *much* better apps for mixing (like Logic Audio, which is awesome but relatively hard to learn).

PC recording can be incredibly powerful and easy if you know what you're doing and you get the right software and hardware. To me it seems a hell of a lot more cost effective than stand-alone solutions, too. I like the expandability - I'm about to add another 8 ins and outs to my rig by spending $600 on a MOTU 1224 or 2408 expansion.

Oh, as for outboard gear, I'm using an Alesis Studio 24 board with direct outs for each channel. That runs into an 8-in 8-out (plus digital ins and outs) MOTU 1224 (the 2408 should be good also).
 
Thanks for the replies,and keepem coming if anyone has more to add or differs in thier opinions.

ametth,
which standalone did you use?

If I go standalone,then I will probably want to somehow integrate it with a pc so I can make mp3's and occasionally use the pc for editing the tracks.But I don't anticipate editing being a huge need for me except for when it comes to making a cd perhaps.
thanks,
JT
 
I've used n-Track and Sonic Foundry's Vegas and I'm not saying that PC tracking isn't effective...it's just a big fat pain in the ass.

Yeah when I first started I loved the PC solution. So CHEAP! Now I can barely stand it. Mixing with the mouse sucks. DSP sucks. Buffering sucks. Monitoring your CPU & drive usage sucks. Maintaining a PC sucks. Moving a PC sucks. Using extra super long mouse & keyboard cables sucks. CPU & power supply fans are noisy.

But yeah, it's damn cheap. That's why I'm still doing it this way. It's nice to be able to record 24 tracks without hardly spending a dime. But if I could afford a standalone digital recording box and an outboard mixer at this point I'd be there in a second. I'd probably still edit with the PC though.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Ok, I'll agree with one of those points: mixing with the mouse does suck. I'd rather have a real board with real knobs and faders. If I could afford it, I'd buy Pro Tools with that Pro Control surface, or at least the E-Mu Paris sytem. None of those other things about using a PC bother me at all because I use the PC for other purposes and recording adds no extra maintenance or problems, aside from needing a much bigger hard drive and making sure it's defragged a little more often than I used to do it.
 
having never used a real board for mixing, I am sure that I will hate it if I have to give up my mouse and go to a mixer.
 
I started "home" recording 20 years ago with TEAC 2340 and 3340 reel-to-reel decks. Up until last year I was using a Fostex 8 channel reel-to-reel. I record mostly loud, obnouxious, guitar based rock and roll with my band.

About 4 months ago I purchased a Gadget Labs 8024 (24 bit 8 in 8 out, $500) and upgraded my mixer to an Alesis Studio 32 (16+16 in, 4 out, about $750). I initially used a Celeron based PC, but found it too slow to record 8 tracks at once. I wound up with:

Pentium IIIEB-553 chip
256 megs ram
ASUS P3V4X motherboard, VIA Apollo Pro 133A chipset
Maxtor 40 gig Ultra 66 Hard drive
Windows 98SE

I already had numerous outboard effects units and mics.

I chose Cakewalk 9 Pro for the software (upgraded from 5)

So.... Is it a pain in the Ass?? In a word, NO.

I LOVE DIGITAL. No more tape hiss, splice blocks, tracks leaking, etc. etc.

I LOVE PCs. Granted I was already PC literate (I do PC support in my day job) so the hardware configuration was not a huge hassle. I find the PC platform far more flexible than a stand alone unit. Yes, there are more things that can go wrong. But there are a lot more things you can DO also.

Is this kind of setup for you? You need to answer these questions -
1) Am I somewhat PC literate, familiar with Windows 95/98/NT (whatever you intend to use)enough so that I can install drivers, check the configuration, and do basic operations?
2) Do I have the budget to buy decent hardware and software?
3) Do I have the time to learn how to use (and use well) the software?

If you can answer YES to these questions than by all means buy your PC and start recording. You will never want to go back.

Just my opinion....
 
Oh and one more thing - I have always been a "hands on, I need knobs and faders" kind of guy. I am still doing most of my mixing down by going back through the mixer to an external unit, using external effects. But that's because of habbit and because I already have effects units that I like. I am starting to "mix with the mouse" and use plug-in effects more and more because of the obvious noise advantages. It's just a matter of getting used to it...
 
ametth,
you asked about my spending budget....
well since I have been taking my sweet time trying to learn about going digital and saving moolah all the while,I was able to save up about 3grand,and by then i started hearing about the Yamaha AW4416,which seemed to be my dream machine aside from a few little things,but It came closest to having everything I wanted in one box.And i have found that machine for right at 3 grand with the cd burner.But at the last minute,I started looking into custom configured audio pc's because i would also like to have a better pc at home for games and internet use.I can get into a really powerful custom audio pc with 8in8out motu or similar for around the same price,minus the mixer and some software.
I do like the editing possibilities in pc...but not sure if i'd like the feel or if it would slow me down.
I figured the standalone would be the way for me to go....but the one I want has just come out and still has O.S.bugs to work out,and that could drive me just as nuts as trying to get the bugs out of a pc system;-).
Back to the money question,I will save more if I need to,or spend less if I can get away with it.But i just want to end up with a fairly powerful and fairly flexible home studio capable of plenty of tracks,making my own polished cd's,with as little outboard gear as I can get away with to start(i'm sure i'll add on as money allows ;-)).Anything 3 grand or more is going to tap me out for quite awhile.Portability would be nice since i have musician friends..but not absolutely vital.

I do feel fairly comfortable using a pc.I have installed a ram upgrade,a cdrw,a printer,scanner,and zip drive,so I feel fairly confident.But none of these devices ever gave me any trouble at all.I've experienced what configuration and installation nightmares are like by helping a relative with her older computer....and if i ever had any problems like her,i'd be chuncking it out the window ;-).If it requires messing with the registry,or fooling around alot in the bios,then it's not for me.But I think i can handle installing drivers and such.
sorry for the rambling.......too tired to be doing this ;-)
thanks for all the replies everyone
JT
 
Jeff, which stand alone were you looking at that just came out? I'm curious.
 
The PC rig will fit within your budget. If that PC you already have is worthy (350MHz+ Celeron/PII/PIII, 128MB+ RAM, large/fast hard drive), then all you need is a board and input device. I highly recommend the Alesis Studio 32 (I misspoke earlier, I have a 32 not 24), which has direct outs for each of 16 channels, so it'll be ready for an expansion to 16 channels of input when you're ready. That board runs around $900. The MOTU 2408 core system is also $900, and if you only care about analog inputs for now it'll do the same for you (8 in/out) as the 1224 which is more expensive. Shouldn't need to do anything with the registry or bios, the installation of those MOTU units is pretty easy.

If you're really interested in portability, I think it can be done. You can mount your PC in a rack case with the MOTU unit and get a rack-mountable board or some kind of mic preamp rack unit so you can do mobile recording. Check this out: http://www.gorilla.net/index_rackmount_cases_industrial_computers.htm
 
Hi All,

You know I see a lot of complaints from PC users about mixing with the mouse and I wonder why a solution like Peavey studio Mix isnt very popular. I just purchased one on ebay for 300 bucks, and let me tell you it is just what the doctor ordered. Super simple integration into CWPA9, full transport controls, jog wheel, motorized faders in banks of 8, up to 88 channels. I love it, has sped up the recording process. Has anyone considered this? Or tried it and found problems? Or was it just badly marketed?
 
ametth,
The Standalone studio I was refering to that just came out is the Yamaha AW4416.It was originally supposed to be available in July,but it ended up not being available til this month.
It has alot of cool features.Some probably useless,others could be quite handy.Like I read that you could group the motorized faders,so that when you move one,the others you put in that group would move the same amount.Lots of nifty little things like that you can probably do with this machine.A couple other things I liked about it that are unusual,is that it has a mouse port,and it has a display for your level meters which is seperate from the display for your mixer,effects,etc.....so it seems to me it would be much easier to see your levels all the time that way.
I am also considering the possibility of going for the new Tascam 788 and then maybe getting a pc later for mastering and cd burning(and playing games ;-).I'm impressed with Tascam's level of user support for this machine,but it is only an 8 track,and can only do 4 simultaneous ins I think.It has some nifty features like easy bounce 6to2,and it allows you to record 8 tracks and still mix down to a master stereo track internally,but that has to be your final step in the recording process.


Diragor,
I will have to buy a new pc if I'm going to use it for tracking.The one I have is only a Hewlett Packard-pentium 233.I don't have a very good soundcard so it's difficult to get any idea what this machine can do...but I wouldn't expect much from it.I am considering having a pc built and customized for me for audio as an option.One set up I was looking at(drooling over)was a 1gigahertz amd thunderbird with 256 megs ram and the delta 1010 card,or the Motu.But I don't think the motu has a midi in out.
 
I agree with Diragor that the Studio 32 is a great (realitively) inexpensive analog mixer - I love mine, its very quiet and has decent mic preamps. I looked at the Peavy Studio Mix like Bassman suggested, it was just not suitable for me because of my need for a large number of mic preamps. I suppose it would make mixing down from Cakewalk easier but I find the Alesis quiet enough that I can mix down through it if I am feeling mouse-impaired.

As for PC prices, I do PC ordering for my company and the systems I have been ordering this month run about $1475. For that I am getting:

Pentium IIIEB 733
256 megs PC133 RAM
30 gig ATA 7200 Hard disk
ATI AGP video
Toshiba DVD drive
Floppy drive
3Com Network card
Mouse / Keyboard
Windows 98

You can probably do better by shopping mail order. So if your budget is $3000 you should be able to get a decent recording card / interface and still have money for a mixer and some accessories.

I had looked at some early pre-release specs of the Yamaha unit you mentioned, but I already had lots of PC stuff so I wanted to go that route. Whatever you decide, best of luck to ya ...
 
PC recording can indeed be a pain in the ass, however, it's a good method for getting the job done. Once you work out the bugs and get your own system down, it can run like clockwork. That can take a damn long while to do though. :)
On the other hand, considering the cost of an interface, an outboard mixer, and a good PC to run it all, a stand alone looks pretty good. I started out recording on a PC, and after all of the upgrades and buying, I'm in hook, line and sinker. I'm not sure what I would do if I had to start all over.
Hmmm, maybe this reply isn't helping anything but my post count... :)
 
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