What is -10dbv an +4dbu??????

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hottsauce_21

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My focusrite voicemaster pro has these outputs. -10dbv an +4dbu. I have the -10dbv hooked up to a soundblaster audigy 2 platinum mic input. IS that how it goes??????? I was lookin at some soundcards, Since they say my sb audigy 2 platinum is mainly for gaming, i thought i'd get a new one. I read on my soundcard, It doesn't say it supports -10dbv an +4dbu, While some other soundcards i looked at do. Like the Emu 1212M 24-Bit/192kHz. Do i need a soundcard like that? that says it supports -10dbv an +4dbu, JUST so it will sound good wit my preamp, Or does it matter???????? and also, do i have my SB audigy 2 platinum hooked up right in the first place, Should i have the -10dbv to the soundcard, or the +4dbu to it?????
 
-10dbu and +4 dbv are standards for the calibration of the output of analog audio devices. In either one, a reading of O db on a VU meter is the voltage sugested for the standard (and just as an aside, while it is -10 dbu, it is +4 dbv). They are different standards, that is all. I can not, at this moment, remember the electrical details of the two standards, so I will let someone else do so. It has something to do with 1 volt = something, I just don't remember exactly what. (hey, it has been a few years since I took those classes).

In general (and only in general, as there are exceptions) professional quality gear will be +4 dbv, and amature or "prosumer" gear will be -10 dbu. With the SoundBlaster card, you are almost certainly right to be using -10 dbu.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
It's the input reference level -10 for consumer gear (like your Soundblaster) +4 for pro gear.
Yes you should be using the -10 output to feed your Soundblaster.
 
Thanks

so if i got the Emu 1212M 24-Bit/192kHz. I could use the +4dbu AND it will come out WAY cleaner?????? Does anyone know what i need to buy inorder to run the +4dbu Xlr output on my Voicemaster Pro to the Emu 1212M 24-Bit/192kHz input. Cuz it doesn't have a XLR input. But it says i can set the level to and from +4dbu and -10dbv on the soundcard.
 
The inputs on the 1212M are balanced TRS ... so all you would need is the proper XLR to TRS cables. Proper meaning : having the appropriate ends Female vs. Male for the two types XLR and TRS.
 
My focusrite voicemaster pro has these outputs. -10dbv an +4dbu. I have the -10dbv hooked up to a soundblaster audigy 2 platinum mic input.
Click to expand...

You may want to try it through the line in on your soundblaster. A new card is a better option but I think right off, the line in will provide better results than the mic input with your current setup.
 
I've been confused about this for a long time as well.
I've read alot of posts on here about it, as well as googling but I can't seem to comprehend it.

First, I had everything on my delta 44 set to +4, since I figured I'm using pro equipment... But then I wondered, is a delta 44 pro equipment? Is a presonus bluetube/tube pre pro equipment? What the hell is "Consumer". I noticed that if I set everything to -10 I get a louder signal so I don't have to jack up the gain on my preamps so things seem to record cleaner.. This confuses me because I'd like to think that my gear is pro.
 
demensia said:
I've been confused about this for a long time as well.
I've read alot of posts on here about it, as well as googling but I can't seem to comprehend it.

First, I had everything on my delta 44 set to +4, since I figured I'm using pro equipment... But then I wondered, is a delta 44 pro equipment? Is a presonus bluetube/tube pre pro equipment? What the hell is "Consumer". I noticed that if I set everything to -10 I get a louder signal so I don't have to jack up the gain on my preamps so things seem to record cleaner.. This confuses me because I'd like to think that my gear is pro.
Click to expand...
Gain Structure Article --> Meters, Signal Level, and Headroom
 
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With all due respect, I've read this about fifty times in the last year or so, and I still can't understand a single paragraph. I'm not trying to cheese out by not reading the literature thats been written to try and help, I just honestly can not comprehend it.

When I mix, I can't look at the meters because they confuse the hell out of me. In tracking, I mess with the preamp until the signal shows in the mid/high yellow on my delta 44 mixer. Then I mix by ear, and bring the final mix up to just about red.

I know I could get better quality recording if I understood exactly what I was doing, but as soon as the word decibel enters the equasion it turns scientific and my head explodes.

Can anyone explain this deal to me in a more simplistic way?
 
Unfortunately, you are trying to do something that is scientific. All you are trying to do is match the output of one device to the input of the next one. +4 and -10 are the 2 standards. -10 is called consumer because that is what the ins and outs on your stereo are. (your tape deck and CD player) +4 has some advantages but it is also more expensive to implement, so you don't find it on home stereo crap and the like.
Just because you have something that is -10 doesn't mean it's crap, just like having something at +4 doesn't mean it's great. They are just 2 different standards.
 
Just because you have something that is -10 doesn't mean it's crap, just like having something at +4 doesn't mean it's great. They are just 2 different standards.
Click to expand...

So which one should we use?
 
demensia said:
So which one should we use?
Click to expand...
You need to use whichever interfaces properly with whatever gear you're connecting to. If 80% of your gear expects +4dBu, then that should be your gain structure, and you need to handle gear that doesn't operate at that level as special cases, and vice versa.......
 
some history. hope i get this right.
bb correct me if i'm wrong anywhere.
the +4 standard dates back to telephone circuit days eons ago and
then became a standard in pro audio studios using tape machines biased
to +4. actually a lot of studios even biased to +8 to get even more level to
tape to lower the noise floor on mixdown. but this is for another day.
now enter the porta studio era eg; tascam . to build affordable recorders the japanese smartly realised circuit costs could be trimmed by using -10
as a standard. thus -10 became very prevalent.
now that -10 is everywhere there is not as much reason to use +4.
particularly in a daw situation imho.
in summary -10 and +4 are just standards. they dont necessarily relate to audio quality. lots of good songs were done on tascam multitracks operating at -10. including i underrstand one of the old eurythmics hits.
the key to success - a RULE as it were is if you adopt FOR YOUR STUDIO
+4. then you must follow through the standard at every stage.
and if -10 . everything must operate at -10. its not a good idea to mix both standards as mismatches can occur.
hope i got this right !
 
thanks

thanks everyone, i think i got the idea. I mean i only got 3 pieces of gear really, so it should be simple. I bet all of u out there with mixers, and compressors, effects processors and stuff. Are really confused, I know i was til Blue bear said just make sure all ur gear is set to the same thing. Thanks
 
They are just standards, and as my sync teacher at Berklee always used to say;

"What's the great thing about standards?"



"There are so many of them."


Kind of a joke, except when you start trying to sync 29.97 drop to 29.97 non-drop. Yeach!!!


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
hottsauce_21 said:
My focusrite voicemaster pro has these outputs. -10dbv an +4dbu. I have the -10dbv hooked up to a soundblaster audigy 2 platinum mic input. IS that how it goes??????? I was lookin at some soundcards, Since they say my sb audigy 2 platinum is mainly for gaming, i thought i'd get a new one. I read on my soundcard, It doesn't say it supports -10dbv an +4dbu, While some other soundcards i looked at do. Like the Emu 1212M 24-Bit/192kHz. Do i need a soundcard like that? that says it supports -10dbv an +4dbu, JUST so it will sound good wit my preamp, Or does it matter???????? and also, do i have my SB audigy 2 platinum hooked up right in the first place, Should i have the -10dbv to the soundcard, or the +4dbu to it?????
Click to expand...

You ALWAYS want to go from +4 to -10!! I cannot emphasize that enough. Electrons have more momentum going DOWNHILL (like everything else!!). If you go from -10 to +4, you will suffer a blockage and eventual transistor burnout from the excessive heat generated from the electrons working to overcome the "hill" effect. The term "dbv" means "decibal velocity" and directly relates to downhill movements of qualified electrons. The term "dbu" means, you guessed it, "decibal underachievment" meaning that the electrons cannot go uphill!! Once you become more experienced and professional, like me, you can hear if a piece of equipment is hooked up the wrong way. You will learn to hear the "hill" effect.

Good luck Mr. hoofsauce21!
 
demensia said:
I noticed that if I set everything to -10 I get a louder signal so I don't have to jack up the gain on my preamps so things seem to record cleaner..
Click to expand...

There's the short answer...
 
The two levels are not compatiable without a convertor device.

Rane BB44x

I have one of these in my rack with the 88 option (fully loaded). It can convert between the two levels in either direction.
 
bgavin said:
The two levels are not compatiable without a convertor device.

Rane BB44x

I have one of these in my rack with the 88 option (fully loaded). It can convert between the two levels in either direction.
Click to expand...

I have a couple of ebtech boxes that do the same thing. They have come in handy, that's for sure.
But..

The bulk of the problems for me have come from going from a +4 to a -10 piece of gear. The -10 inputs overload too easily, partially from too much level, and partially because a lot of -10 gear doesn't have enough dynamic range, and again the inputs over load trying to process the peaks. Attenuate the +4 signal enough to get into a -10 input, and low-level info can be lost, and the +4 signal sounds like crap from all the attenuation anyway.

Going from -10 to +4 is much less of a problem, and is pretty easy these days with no converters. Much of today's -10 gear puts out a signal hotter than this, for one thing. And -10 gear has gotten a lot quieter with the advent of digital technology, cutting down on noise that used to come up when patching -10 to +4.
Today's +4 gear is also better at the level most home reccers use (if you use decent gear), providing much more clean gain than in the past. And any +4 gear with a mic input can easily amplify a -10 signal up to line level.
 
Micsales said:
You ALWAYS want to go from +4 to -10!! I cannot emphasize that enough. Electrons have more momentum going DOWNHILL (like everything else!!). If you go from -10 to +4, you will suffer a blockage and eventual transistor burnout from the excessive heat generated from the electrons working to overcome the "hill" effect. The term "dbv" means "decibal velocity" and directly relates to downhill movements of qualified electrons. The term "dbu" means, you guessed it, "decibal underachievment" meaning that the electrons cannot go uphill!! Once you become more experienced and professional, like me, you can hear if a piece of equipment is hooked up the wrong way. You will learn to hear the "hill" effect.

Good luck Mr. hoofsauce21!
Click to expand...


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
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