What I Want - hopefully for the last time

[TripleM]

Please check out this remix of 'What I Want'.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=1436/singles

There is an unmixed version as well, but I'm more interested in the mixed version.

I posted a mixed version over a month ago. I hopefully took some mud out of it. Did I take too much low end out? I also tried for some midrange definition. Did I overhype the mids?

Thanks.

 

[powderfinger]

i'm thinking this one might be the best one yet......i'm remembering strugling to make out all the lyrics in previous versions, and they're definitely clear here..........you might be able to get away w/ throwing a little more bass back in......it also sound like the bass could stand a little more compression at a couple points............good remix

 

[B.SABBATH]

I'll give this the rare spin on the monitors.. be back later.

 

[Village Idiot]

I had to butt in here, as you are one of my favorite artists round here.

The first thing that hit my ears is either a pumping compressor, or the bass drum pedal over-compressed/distorted. Takes away from the listening experience.

Other than that....

I look forward to your music posts, because I like think we have similar influences in our lyrical heros.
The musical arrangement is tight, the guitars are well-placed in the mix. The bass could be a litttle more melodic and up in the mix. (Shameless hint to let me play bass for you sometime. I would LOVE to lay down a bass track to one of your tunes.)

Your vocals sound fine. You have a good timbre to them.
Are those background vocals always you by yourself?
Do you really hit those notes, or is there a trick you use?

In a nutshell...Great lyrics as usual, nice mixdown, re-do the drums , let me re-do the bass (That was pathetic pandering...sorry)

P.S- I have not forgotten about recording the one we talked about. NOW I finally have the time to do it right.

Keep em coming!


VI

 

[SLuiCe]

I like this song.

The vocals sound thin and harsh to me. Like a lot of 2K stuff. Did you maybe cut too much low mid from them? I also think there might be too much verb on them- or mic proximity effect. There just seems to be very little meat to the vocal. Hollow.

I think the mix could also use some more low end. This is pop. Where's the kick? The bass might be fine, but I'd give some lows back to the guitar. 250-350Hz?

The word "want" at the end could be hit with more confidence.

I think the main problem is the vocals sound some place different then the instruments. The band is in the room and the vocals are out in the hall. Might be a tracking problem if you (edit)haven't done much processing to it. Someone else will probably hear it differently.

 

[Pedullist]

Agree with SLuiCe on the vocals. They sound a tad hollow, but I don't know why! Bass sounds a little clickety clackety for my taste, I'd love to hear a little more beef there.

So I just say: listen to SLuiCe.

I like your songs, you already know that, but I tell you anyway.

 

[Khompewtur]

Whoa, this is extremely happy and optimistic sounding. I listenend to the stupid song btw, i caught that you had it played on Dave's show, i had trouble making out some of the lyrics and I wanted to specifically listen to them because he was saying they were so funny. I don't know if my monitors broke overnight, but I thought they were a bit buried in there.

Well the production levels sound really good and the harmonized voices had that retro-british rock kind of feel. Nice work M.

 

[TripleM]

powderfinger - thanks for the ears. I compared it to the other versions and I believe it's the best version. I didn't think anyone should have trouble with the lyrics this time.

Sam - you damn well better be back.

Idiot - thanks for the thoughts. I couldn't hear the pumping. The bass drum is a sample and isn't processed. But I'm guessing that's what you're hearing. Doing bass sometime would be great. Peddy might get jealous though . I'm glad you hadn't forgotten about our conversation a while back. It's been months man. Maybe we could make it a collab. You could do everything except I'll do backing vox. Something like that. PM me if you're interested.

SLuiCe - I gave the vocals a boost around 2K to give them some definition. No cuts in the low mids - they're flat through there. So what do you think? Pull back at 2K and a small boost at 500? I pulled some lows off the guitars, but it's easy to put some of them back. How can a tracking problem cause the vocals to be perceived as in a different spot? Could it possibly be a reverb problem?

Peddy - I will listen to SLuiCe just for you. I put a little EQ boost at 800hz in the bass to give it a stronger attack. Perhaps it doesn't need it. I'll pull it back. I think I might give a little more low end back and give it a gentle overall boost.

I forgot to mention this the first time. There is a little pop in there somewhere. The first one to pinpoint the time gets a TripleM merit badge.

 

[SLuiCe]

Pull back at 2K and a small boost at 500?

Worth a shot.

How can a tracking problem cause the vocals to be perceived as in a different spot? Could it possibly be a reverb problem?

Proximity. It almost sounds like you were too far from the mic. The other instruments sound better represented across the frequency range. They are in a word, fuller. In another word, beefier. The farther from the mic you go, the more the lows and low mids disappear. I'm not hearing those lower details that I know are there in your voice, and that would warm that vocal track right up. The boost at 2K might be helpful for cutting through, but without the presence of the low mids, it may actually be hurting you.

And yea, reverb may (or may not) be the problem, especially without a little predelay to put some distance between the track and the effect. Reverb can really wash out the depth and clarity of a vocal if used without due attention to detail.

The effect you're going for is subjective, just like my opinion. But if you'd like a little more meat to the sound, I think these observations should be considered. Also, bare in mind I don't know your gear. But these suggstions should be helpful unless you're using Radioshack mics or something.

Hope I've helped more than I've aggravated. I do love this song...it still cracks me up, even when I'm listening critically.

 

[volthause]

my first impression:

man, this song just doesn't quit! not in a bad way, but it's got a great hook, and it just moves along at such a blistering pace, that by the end of the first chorus, i feel like i've heard the whole song already. does that make sense? this would make a great retro-pop song and it could be a *full* and *complete* song around the 2 minute 30 mark. but that's a *production* answer to a question you didn't really ask. this is the mix clinic, so i'll focus on that.

i'll agree that the vocals aren't tweeked quite well yet. i would do a total recall on the vocal channel and start fresh with some different eq settings. i think SLuiCe stated that they sounded a bit hollow, which i'll agree to. what do the *raw* vocal takes sound like? what do they need? ususally a roll off of the lower freqs to account for proximity (as stated by SLuiCe) and a little, and I do mean little sparkle on the top end, 10-14K and above. other than that, you'll be twisting the eq to fix problems with the source (maybe the singer's voice, but most often the mic not being matched to the singer)

the guitars sound a bit dull and really pushed back into the mix. you also said that you boosted 800hz in the bass guitar... is this all an attempt to get the bass on top of the el guitar? this is my first time hearing this song, and it appears that you've done a number of different re-mixes, and i don't want to be so niave as to think that you haven't already tried a bunch of different stuff, so before i go spouting off what i would do (that maybe you've already tried) i'll just sit on my hands.

anyhow, i'm rambling, and it really seems that SLuiCe has a firm grip on your song so i'll leave you with this:

great song! just a little bit more work to go!

 

[TripleM]

Khomputer - missed you the first time around. We must have cross posted. Glad you liked the song(s).

SLuiCe - of course you helped more than you aggreviated. I think each time your critiques of my stuff are getting into finer and finer points of recording and mixing. To me that's good to hear. I like all your points and pointers. I relistened. I agree with you to a certain extent about the vocal placement. But I think it's a minor problem. I don't think it's proximity. The predelay on them is pretty short - shorter than that of the guitars. That's my guess as to the culprit so I'll work with that. I agree with you on their "thin" sound. I think that will be an easy fix. I'm going to re-EQ as per your hint. I'll put some lows back on the guitars, and to a lesser extent on the bass. Thanks as always.

volthause - thank you. There's some thought in your critique and it's appreciated. As I said above, I'm going to redo the entire EQ on the vocals. I already know what I'm going to do there. The EQ boost on the bass was to get a stronger attack. But now I don't think it's necessary.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Doug H]

Best one yet

Heavy guitar sit's better to me, and the vocals are up where they should be.

 

[participant]

Emineminem,

Boy this thing's sure put you through the ringer! You've come out much better for the wear, IMO. This sounds really, really improved. There's no more 'haze' in the center of the mix. The vocals are very easy to pick out...

You've been able to bend a bit, and the improvement is huge.

Sounds like some much easier sonic issues, now... involving better tracking/equipment/drums at this point (IMO). Sluice is on point. Dude... take VI up on the bass offer... his "idiot" nomenclature strangely ironic (or is that just "sarcastic"? Probably "self-depricating")

I wish my brain were vibrant right now... school gets out late... I'll get back to this thread and offer more detail ... probably by Friday (no school).


C

 

[Toki987]

much more defined. I like the bass tone, just a bit strong in the mix but good. Everything is more distinct and clearer.

 

[skids]

If my memory serves me, and I think it does (Iron Chef joke, sorry) ....this sounds so much better. The mud is gone. Everything sounds more balanced. I am glad you took the time to go back to this.

There are a lot of highs and maybe a lack of lows, but I am not sure messing with it more is the answer. I mean it has the oldies feel which it should. I think the bass sound fits. It has that Rickenbacker sound which is perfect for the song. You could maybe boost the lows a little more on the bass at 120Hz to see if that brings back a little warmth, then lower the bass volume overall a hair, but I'm not really complaining. I think the sounds fit the style.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh yeah, the pop is at...





















I have no idea. I never hear half the one's you find in the first place.

Great tune. Good job.

 

[TripleM]

Doug H - I appreciate the thoughts. I've worked quite a bit on this one. The distorted guits and vocals were no small part of that. I'm glad you liked the results.

participant - "much easier sonic issues now" - hey that was really good to hear. I'm interested in different tracking techniques. Who doesn't like to buy new equipment? Paying for it is a drag. he he Please give it another good listen and give me any extra details you can. I PM'd the Idiot. We'll see what he's up for doing.

Toki - the bass has a pretty good sound. I'm going to pull back the 800hz boost and give a little more low end back though.

skids - I compared it with the original and the mud sure is gone. But maybe a little too much low end went with it. I only listened to this version on my monitors - not on any other systems so it was hard to tell. I'll give ya a hint - the pop is in the first 20 seconds.

 

[B.SABBATH]

Triplage,

all the points have been covered.. this tune has come along way and this is the best version by far.. that being said, I can't agree enough with what some of the others said.. even the 2:30 production call by valthause.. I'm very tainted because it sounds a lot better than previous versions.. To me this whole recording sounds like it was recorded well but with the fidelity of a 4 track cassette.. maybe it's time for an upgrade equipment wise..

I have nothing useful to add because I'm having sonic issues too.. you already know I dig the tune and performance.. nice bass line too.. keep em coming because every new one sounds better!

 

[LI_Slim]

I likes it too.

Here's my suggestion for stuff to try with the vocals.

Maybe a little (little more?) compression. Also try a small eq boost at about 150k or so.

Instead of boosting a bit at 2k for definition, try boosting a bit at 4k or so.

Try some delay instead of reverb.

 

[TripleM]

Sam - hey that was good to hear - the part about this sounding better by far than my other stuff. Length of songs is something that people have said about several other songs. I always seem to have three verses of stuff I want to say. When I write lyrics I probably write seven verses worth of stuff and throw out the more crappy parts. There always seems to be three verses I don't want to part with.

I'm going to start to work on my 7 minute 42 second answer to "Stairway to Heaven" right away.

I'm perfectly cool with upgrading equipment. I want to first make sure I'm getting the best possible results with what I have and I don't think I'm there yet.

Thanks for your thoughts and time.

Slim - thanks for the advice. I had already planned to compress a little harder, but it was good to hear someone else was thinking that too. I think 150 is too low for a boost. I think your 4K idea was interesting though. I hadn't thought of that. In fact I tried it last night. I made the boost real subtle, but it worked. Those vox pop through just a little bit better without being as abrasive on the ears. Thanks for the idea.

I also took out the 2K boost - I moved it down to 550. This was per SLuiCe's recommendation. The vox sound warmer, but I haven't done a side by side comparison of the whole tune yet. I may repost the newest version. Haven't decided yet. But take my word for it - it sounds PROFESSIONAL now.

I gotta be driving you all nuts with this song. But I've found that beating this one to death has been a terrific learning experience.

Thanks all.