What glue for unframed ceiling cloud panels?

scrubs

scrubs

Not of sound mind
I'm planning on hanging some mineral wool panels above my mixing location and drumkit. For wall/corner panels, I had framed them in pine boards and stapled the fabric (burlap) directly to the frame. For the clouds, I'd prefer to not use a frame, as it will make them significantly heavier. So, I'm trying to figure out how best to adhere the fburlap to the insulation. I've seen a few threads mentioning spray-on adhesives, iron-on stuff, and hot glue, but I'm not sure what to use. Any thoughts/tips? Thanks!
 
I'm having trouble with clouds, too. I managed to finish 4 clouds today using some spare 2mm plywood; I cut the fiberglass and plywood into 2'x4' pieces, layed down the fabric, then the fiberglass, then put the plywood on top. I wrapped the fabric around that and stapled it onto the plywood, from the top.

I don't really like the look of it though. I am also looking forward to any tips that can be shared in this thread.
 
Maybe hot glue would be best since MW is so absorptive (no pun intended) it will take alot of spray glue. I personally don't like using spray glue unless its more of a hard surface, lots of waste. And the stuff ain;t cheap.

Nash, I hope you're not using plywood as a backing. As a frame, it OK.
 
I used it as a backing. The plywood side faces my drop ceiling, and the absorptive side faces down, towards the floor.

Is that bad?
 
if i'm correct the intention of a basstrap or cloud is that sound (including bass frequencies) can travel trough it, so that the fibreglass absorps some energy, then it hits the ceiling, returns back trough the fibreglass and loses more energy

if you hang a cloud on the ceiling with some space between then you get this effect, if you attach your cloud (with that wooden back) directly on your ceiling you miss some of the effect

actually you should be able to fart trough a basstrap, its a good stench absorber too :rolleyes:
 
But if I don't use a plywood backing, it'll

A) be difficult to retain its shape. It'll sort of drape/sag, and end up looking like a U rather than a solid rectangle.

B) difficult to staple the fabric in place.

What should I do? =(
 
Nash,
If the backing is thin it wont have ANY effect on the Bass frequencies. If bass can walk through 1 inch of sheetrock, a 1/8-1/4 inch of plywood wont effect it. It MAY slightly reduce the absorbtion of mid frequencies... but I really dont think it is going to matter unless you are really cutting it close on the number of absorbers you are putting up.

Tom
 
I´m finishing my studio, and i wanna build a cloud for my drums...
I was wondering if i should use high density rigid fiberglass (like 50 kg/m3) or i can use some spear fluffy wool i already have... (i guess is 23 kg/m3?)...

Thanks!
 
I used hot glue. in fact, even if you are framing them, it can look nice to wrap the fiberglass in fabric using hot glue and place it inside the frame so that you retain the wood look. When I made mine I only used a plywood backing for the 'cloud' over the drumkit, in order to reflect sound out away from the kit by angling the cloud. don't use fluffy stuff. the frk stuff is good for this because you can glue the fabric right to the frk.
 
Tom,
but isn't clouds meant more for the low mids and up e.g. reflections? At leat for us Hr types. I suppose you can adjust them for particular needs.
tmix said:
Nash,
If the backing is thin it wont have ANY effect on the Bass frequencies. If bass can walk through 1 inch of sheetrock, a 1/8-1/4 inch of plywood wont effect it. It MAY slightly reduce the absorbtion of mid frequencies... but I really dont think it is going to matter unless you are really cutting it close on the number of absorbers you are putting up.

Tom
Click to expand...
 
Heres the deal.
Initially Scrubs was talking Mineral wool which is messy, sheds easy and is extremely absorptive to adhesives etc. Stuff like THAT needs some sort of support for keeping shapeand attaching coverings to.
In a cloud where it is fixed and not moved around it works well, but I cant think of anything that would stick to mineral wool.

Compressed fiberglass is a different animal.
It has similar properties but is firmer, and can be wrapped whilst keeping its shape better than Mineral wool.( it is also twice the price) They also sell a spray or paint on substance that seals and stiffens the surface of the compressed fiberglass sort of like super hairspray that is not flammable.

Having the plywood up against the surface of the absorber in effect puts a reflective boundary really close to the panel potentially reducing the effectiveness in those frequencies that wont pass through the backing. If the sounds were able to pass through the panel, reflect off the ceiling (which is hopefully a few inches away and loses some energy) then tries to pass back through the panel where it absorbs more at the second pass it simply absorbs more. At 2 mm thickness ( approx 1/16th inch) the only thing the plywood would reflect is the higher frequencies, in primarily the range where the mineral wool / compressed fiberglass is allready more absorptive percentage wise.

In other words, the absorbers are not equally absorptive across the entire frequency range, they may absorb 95 percent of highs whilst only absorbing 50 percent of mids.
I personally think (what ever THAT is worth) that the reduction of absorbtion in the higher and mid frequencies by backing the mineral wool (not the fiberglass) with thin plywood to help with keeping shape and adhereing the fabric to it is well worth the trade off, particularly if you dont just put one 2 ft by 4 ft piece up.

It is strictly my experiance.
I have over 100 pieces of 2" mineral wool up in my studio...

Tom
 
I think it will be much easier to make some sort of frame. I've framed all mine, purely because it looks better but i also think it would be much easier to cover than not. I've even seen people use that really thin metal you use for corners on drywall.
 
As stated, mineral wool is not very well suited for clouds with no extra structural support.

I Made my clouds out of 703. I used 1/4" strips of particle board, 3M spray adhesive and staples.
These are the only pics I have of my clouds before hanging.

They have lag bolts that gop through the 703 and the 1/4" particle board as you can see. The other side of the cloud where the head of the bolt is has some more pieces of that 1/4" particle board as washers. but not too big or they'd cause too much reflection.
Then I tightened the bailing wire around the nuts and put a loop to hang from hooks.
 

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[quote/]You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tarnationsauce2 again.[/quote]

Tarnation- what is that fabric? It rules. I've gone with a lighter colored theme in my room, but I have to say that stuff looked flat out professional.
 
Obi-Wan zenabI said:
[quote/]You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tarnationsauce2 again.
Click to expand...

Tarnation- what is that fabric? It rules. I've gone with a lighter colored theme in my room, but I have to say that stuff looked flat out professional.[/QUOTE]
It is charcoal grey speaker carpet I bought at Jo-Anner fabrics on sale for ~5.99 a linear yard. Normally it's ~8.00 I think.
I did a burn test and it does light, not very quick and it smoldered out.
So I got some of this stuff and it's way harder to light: http://www.dharmatrading.com/featured_products/frtqt.html

Thanks for the compliments BTW. :)
 
I hear you Tom. I agree, though I do have a 4x8 cloud of MW. It is in a 1x frame and used some wiring to keep the MW up snug. That sucker is rather heavy and I fear I need to redo the fabric-the burlap looks cheesy :o
703 is much better for clouds for sure.

Did you ever get your place done?

T



tmix said:
Heres the deal.
Initially Scrubs was talking Mineral wool which is messy, sheds easy and is extremely absorptive to adhesives etc. Stuff like THAT needs some sort of support for keeping shapeand attaching coverings to.
In a cloud where it is fixed and not moved around it works well, but I cant think of anything that would stick to mineral wool.

Compressed fiberglass is a different animal.
It has similar properties but is firmer, and can be wrapped whilst keeping its shape better than Mineral wool.( it is also twice the price) They also sell a spray or paint on substance that seals and stiffens the surface of the compressed fiberglass sort of like super hairspray that is not flammable.

Having the plywood up against the surface of the absorber in effect puts a reflective boundary really close to the panel potentially reducing the effectiveness in those frequencies that wont pass through the backing. If the sounds were able to pass through the panel, reflect off the ceiling (which is hopefully a few inches away and loses some energy) then tries to pass back through the panel where it absorbs more at the second pass it simply absorbs more. At 2 mm thickness ( approx 1/16th inch) the only thing the plywood would reflect is the higher frequencies, in primarily the range where the mineral wool / compressed fiberglass is allready more absorptive percentage wise.

In other words, the absorbers are not equally absorptive across the entire frequency range, they may absorb 95 percent of highs whilst only absorbing 50 percent of mids.
I personally think (what ever THAT is worth) that the reduction of absorbtion in the higher and mid frequencies by backing the mineral wool (not the fiberglass) with thin plywood to help with keeping shape and adhereing the fabric to it is well worth the trade off, particularly if you dont just put one 2 ft by 4 ft piece up.

It is strictly my experiance.
I have over 100 pieces of 2" mineral wool up in my studio...

Tom
Click to expand...
 
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