What ? Eh ? Run that by me again ?

grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
This is supposed to be a fun thread....but it might not turn out that way !
Namely, what are those phrases that pop up in a home recording context that drive you up the wall or you just don't understand, still ?
One of mine is when people talk about flipping the phase. I mean, I know what it means but how do you do it ? How do you do it if you're working with a reel-to-reel or a cassette portastudio or one of those early standalone DAWs ? 🤪
 
I think seriously that this is one of those things people think is important, because you read it so often, but in reality is a last ditch thing to try to see of a problem goes away or reduces. It's relaly handy when you are trying to null something out or are setting up a M/S decoder on three faders - but most times when you press a physical button, or click a little phase icon - nothing audible happens.

The physics is sound, and the 'phase' button now religiously being called polarity, might be better - but AC waveforms don;t really have polarity. They could technically be termed as positive going, or negative going - as in does the waveform go up or down when it starts, but I suppose 'invert' is the only really accurate description. As real phase is only a problem when it accidentally cancels, this notion of pressing the button rarely does much, but maybe there are those out there who stick two mics on a snare and then invert one, but I'm not one of them. I would love to have the golden ears of some of our colleagues - but I've maybe used two mics on a snare 4 or 5 times ever. Just not what I do. I reckon I could do better with EQ, and rather than add the snare buzz from the wires, I'm more often trying to get rid of it!

I see the little phi symbol on a button or icon, and know what it does - plus goes minus and minus goes plus. I will call it phase. That's incorrect. I won't call it phase because it's not that either. Phase is an adjustment in time. Inverting the waveform is not changing time and it is not really changing polarity, as it's AC. It's a total mess - everyone into recording knows about it, yet none of us can really explain it.

I'll remain on phase I think.
 
But it doesn't really matter at this point. It's just one of those phrases that makes me go 🙄 or sometimes 😵‍💫.
When I first came to HR, the one that used to drive me to distraction was "room treatment." None of this is about the merits or demerits of the phrases, by the way. It's almost deliberately irrational.
 
Ooh! Ooh! Just thought of... soundproofing...

I've been guilty of using this when speaking of adding sound treatments to my room(s). Most of us don't really want or need soundproofing for a bedroom studio.
 
Slouching Raymond said:
Inverting the polarity IS flipping the phase 180 degrees.
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Phase is a result of time/distance - You can't flip it.
If two audio recordings are 180 degrees out of phase (at a given frequency) it's because one of the microphones is farther away from the source the other, just the right amount to make that mic 'hear' the audio half a cycle later at that frequency.

The polarity invert button is rarely useful with a single microphone, because there's nothing for polarity to be 'wrong' against,
but if you have two microphones on a source polarity matters.
It may matter because you're doing back/front mics on a cab, or top/bottom mics on a snare, but it also may matter because it's never safe to assume that all microphones and cables are wired pin2+.
Some people go to the trouble of checking and rewiring their gear to be sure.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Phase is a result of time/distance - You can't flip it.
If two audio recordings are 180 degrees out of phase (at a given frequency) it's because one of the microphones is farther away from the source the other, just the right amount to make that mic 'hear' the audio half a cycle later at that frequency.

The polarity invert button is rarely useful with a single microphone, because there's nothing for polarity to be 'wrong' against,
but if you have two microphones on a source polarity matters.
It may matter because you're doing back/front mics on a cab, or top/bottom mics on a snare, but it also may matter because it's never safe to assume that all microphones and cables are wired pin2+.
Some people go to the trouble of checking and rewiring their gear to be sure.
Click to expand...
I dont know if this is relevant or makes any sense but a while back I mounted some speakers on the wall and connected them back to the amp via two leads each side. I dont know if this is out of phase but the vocal on the vinyl album on my turntable was way in the background and the drums were right at the front. So I swapped the connections over and all was ok xxx
 
Yeah, if a signal is out of phase by 180 degrees it's just late I thought
I always say "Flipping the phase" though because I really don't care.

There are people out there that say phase is important on single mik'd sources like a kick drum. They want the push of the waveform to happen first on a kick for more impact, instead of the pull. They literally lie a speaker on it's back and put a penny on the driver and play a kick through it and they want to get the penny to jump up a bit to make sure their speaker is firing the right way. Marc Daniel Nielson has talked about this a few times.

I was never that pedantic.
 
JamEZmusic said:
Yeah, if a signal is out of phase by 180 degrees it's just late I thought
I always say "Flipping the phase" though because I really don't care.

There are people out there that say phase is important on single mik'd sources like a kick drum. They want the push of the waveform to happen first on a kick for more impact, instead of the pull. They literally lie a speaker on it's back and put a penny on the driver and play a kick through it and they want to get the penny to jump up a bit to make sure their speaker is firing the right way. Marc Daniel Nielson has talked about this a few times.

I was never that pedantic.
Click to expand...
Phase isn’t a measurable phenomenon in that scenario, as there’s nothing to compare it to.

I have heard of people having preferred polarity as you describe, although I’m not sure I could reliably hear the difference.

I think it’s my pet hate because so many people are under the impression that phase and polarity are the same thing, or that the difference doesn’t matter.
Neither is true.
 
Phase = one syllable ,Polarity = three syllables. Just normal humans shorthanding, usually with the "You know what I meant." last word.
 
spantini said:
Ooh! Ooh! Just thought of... soundproofing...
Click to expand...
It used to irritate me somewhat, when someone would ask how to soundproof their recording room and most people answering would pile on them about it. I remember Miroslav often making the point that there was no need to soundproof a room.
But many of the people that would say this didn't live in apartments {or flats as we call them in England} with neighbours next door on both sides with whom one shared both walls and either directly above or below {and in some cases, both} whose ceiling you were above or whose floor you were below. If you wanted to play an actual acoustic drum kit {I use one} or a brass instrument {I've frequently used saxes and trumpets} or put an electric guitar up loud to take maximum advantage of an overegged amp, then soundproofing trumped room treatment every day of the week because you could always attend to the acoustic treatment afterwards.
I've had to take all kinds of measures to cut down on disturbing the neighbours over the years ~ but I don't whinge too much because I've become quite a diplomat 🧐 in the meantime !
 
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