What does "Phase Reverse" do?

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bennychico11 said:
not trying to school anyone Bored Fan (hence the "Harvey's right comment"). I was simply bringing up a different discussion some of us had awhile back which related to his post...in case he was interested. And then Light jumped in with some of his own comments on the matter. So I responded with some more questions for the purpose of a discussion...it's how these threads work. :rolleyes:
I respect Harvey and Light's thoughts on these matters and their posts...yours are getting tiresome.
If you have something to bring to the conversation about my questions, do so. Otherwise stop posting mindless crap.
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Yes SIR!!! :rolleyes:

You could have left it alone. For everyday practical use, Phase Reverse and Polarity Reverse can be interchanged. You can spend your time butting heads with person after person after person about this, but there are MANY professional engineers, some with DEGREE'S in audio engineering/acoustics that are going to use those terms in what you "feel" is the wrong context.

I find it ridiculous that you time and time again have to argue this point. :rolleyes: It seems to be the only thing you can debate!
 
Ford Van said:
Phase Reverse
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The problem is, Ed, when the dust all settles there is NO SUCH THING as "phase reverse". The use of the term, regardless of who uses it - whether they are PhDs or pre-schoolers is irrelevant - is a slang simplification, a misnomer that leads to the kinds of misunderstandings like those in this thread.

G.
 
Ford Van said:
Yes SIR!!! :rolleyes:

You could have left it alone. For everyday practical use, Phase Reverse and Polarity Reverse can be interchanged. You can spend your time butting heads with person after person after person about this, but there are MANY professional engineers, some with DEGREE'S in audio engineering/acoustics that are going to use those terms in what you "feel" is the wrong context.

I find it ridiculous that you time and time again have to argue this point. :rolleyes: It seems to be the only thing you can debate!
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the funny thing is you think I'm arguing. But rather I'm just discussing and seeing what other people (those who you say have DEGREES in audio engineering/acoustics) think of the matter as well. It appeared Light and Harvey had not seen the discussion I had before with other people, so I brought it up.
It also appears you haven't read what I was talking about since I basically agreed with you (and Harvey for that matter) that it can be called a polarity or a phase switch.
I'll be sure to use smaller words next time. Since I'm sure I will discuss this again, because I like talking about phase/polarity.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
The problem is, Ed, when the dust all settles there is NO SUCH THING as "phase reverse". The use of the term, regardless of who uses it - whether they are PhDs or pre-schoolers is irrelevant - is a slang simplification, a misnomer that leads to the kinds of misunderstandings like those in this thread.

G.
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....The term is understood well enough. You can get technical all day long. The fact is, it is EASIER TO SAY PHASE REVERSED, and the stupid mixer SAYS PHASE REVERSE!

Sorry, I guess Polarity Reverse just doesn't have the same "ring" to it.

Webster Merriam:

Phase: 3 : the point or stage in a period of uniform circular motion, harmonic motion, or the periodic changes of any magnitude varying according to a simple harmonic law to which the rotation, oscillation, or variation has advanced from its standard position or assumed instant of starting

Polarity: 1 : the quality or condition inherent in a body that exhibits opposite properties or powers in opposite parts or directions or that exhibits contrasted properties or powers in contrasted parts or directions : the condition of having poles

Seems VERY reasonable to me that they can be used interchangeably!

:rolleyes:
 
bennychico11 said:
the funny thing is you think I'm arguing. But rather I'm just discussing and seeing what other people (those who you say have DEGREES in audio engineering/acoustics) think of the matter as well. It appeared Light and Harvey had not seen the discussion I had before with other people, so I brought it up.
It also appears you haven't read what I was talking about since I basically agreed with you (and Harvey for that matter) that it can be called a polarity or a phase switch.
I'll be sure to use smaller words next time. Since I'm sure I will discuss this again, because I like talking about phase/polarity.
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It was mostly about the way you came across. ;)
 
Ford Van said:
Phase: 3 : the point or stage in a period of uniform circular motion, harmonic motion, or the periodic changes of any magnitude varying according to a simple harmonic law to which the rotation, oscillation, or variation has advanced from its standard position or assumed instant of starting
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Wake up, Ford Van Winkle :D. This is the kind of talk your pedestaled degree-holders have to engage in and understand in order to get their degrees, and in order to truely understand the topic.

Read Webster's definition again and think about what it is actually saying. It's saying what he truth is: that phase is a continuum, one that is based upon a movement (rotation) as related to an original value, based upon a circular angular measurement. As such a continuum of measurement, there is no "inverse" value for phase as there is for polarity.

Let's say we arbitrarily say a non-linear waveform has an initial "phase value" of 0°. What is it's reverse phase? Before you answer, "180°", ask yourself what about -180°, 520º, and any other multiple that would result in an apparent inverse of polarity? What is the formula for "inverting phase" that yields a single correct answer to the question "what is the 'phase inverse' of waveform x?"

Or even more basic, but only to illustrate the point; what is the "inverse phase" of a waveform that exists entirely one one side of the center line of polarity? For example, a sine wave with an amplitude of 5 whose peaks range from -1 to -6. Rotate the phase of that wave 180° (i.e. "invert" or "reverse" the phase) in one instance and invert the polarity from negative to positive in another instance. Compare the results of those two instances and the results will be different.

Is "phase inversion" a slang term that's commonly used by audio engineers of all levels of education when what they really technically mean is polarity inversion? Of course it is. Do most of them understand what they really mean when they say that? Sure. I'm not arguing that, and I believe, neither is Benny.

What I am saying is that the common language does not reflect the science or the truth. Now, if it is you and I just talking shop about the last session one of us mixed, then yeah, I might be picking nits and arguing stupid semantics. But in a conversation regarding the actual explanation of just what "phase reverse" actually is all about, IMHO it's important that the misnomer is understood as such and that the differences be explained. For if they are not, it's just going to lead to further misunderstanding down the road, and in the next conversation, the rookie to the topic is going to inadvertantly be levaing their pants around their ankles and bending over, just waiting for the likes of the less tactless amongst us to call them idiots and berate them for not knowing what they're talking about. ;)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Wake up, Ford Van Winkle :D. This is the kind of talk your pedestaled degree-holders have to engage in and understand in order to get their degrees, and in order to truely understand the topic.

Read Webster's definition again and think about what it is actually saying. It's saying what he truth is: that phase is a continuum, one that is based upon a movement (rotation) as related to an original value, based upon a circular angular measurement. As such a continuum of measurement, there is no "inverse" value for phase as there is for polarity.

Let's say we arbitrarily say a non-linear waveform has an initial "phase value" of 0°. What is it's reverse phase? Before you answer, "180°", ask yourself what about -180°, 520º, and any other multiple that would result in an apparent inverse of polarity? What is the formula for "inverting phase" that yields a single correct answer to the question "what is the 'phase inverse' of waveform x?"

Or even more basic, but only to illustrate the point; what is the "inverse phase" of a waveform that exists entirely one one side of the center line of polarity? For example, a sine wave with an amplitude of 5 whose peaks range from -1 to -6. Rotate the phase of that wave 180° (i.e. "invert" or "reverse" the phase) in one instance and invert the polarity from negative to positive in another instance. Compare the results of those two instances and the results will be different.

Is "phase inversion" a slang term that's commonly used by audio engineers of all levels of education when what they really technically mean is polarity inversion? Of course it is. Do most of them understand what they really mean when they say that? Sure. I'm not arguing that, and I believe, neither is Benny.

What I am saying is that the common language does not reflect the science or the truth. Now, if it is you and I just talking shop about the last session one of us mixed, then yeah, I might be picking nits and arguing stupid semantics. But in a conversation regarding the actual explanation of just what "phase reverse" actually is all about, IMHO it's important that the misnomer is understood as such and that the differences be explained. For if they are not, it's just going to lead to further misunderstanding down the road, and in the next conversation, the rookie to the topic is going to inadvertantly be levaing their pants around their ankles and bending over, just waiting for the likes of the less tactless amongst us to call them idiots and berate them for not knowing what they're talking about. ;)

G.
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I just read "blah blah blah..." Glen. Really.

Smarter guys than you or I called it "Phase Reverse". I am happy to leave it at that. It is universally known to mean Polarity Reverse when talking about that stupid fucking switch on preamps and eq's! ;)
 
Ford Van said:
Smarter guys than you or I called it "Phase Reverse". I am happy to leave it at that.
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If Einstein jumped off a bridge, would you?
 
Here:
http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/ZAAPf/p/phase.html


I believe that the switch "phase reverse" means that the polarity (phase in relation to the other channels) is reversed.

A speaker by itself cannot be "out of phase" BUT a pair of speakers (stereo) can be of opposite polarity (phase).

A single mic in a single channel can have it's polarity reversed with the phase switch with no difference in sound by it's lonesome. It is only when 2 or more channels are mixed together that a phase switched mic will truly be "out of phase" in relation to the other mics.
 
I really hope that this is just a phase we're going through.
 
This thread oozes with geekiness!
I feel like more of a dork for having read it!
 
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