What do you use for mixing down?

M

Masters Of War

New member
I've been recording for a little over a year now with a 488 and I'm looking for a unit to start mixing down my tracks to. Most importantly I'm looking to mix down to a 2 track casset, but I would also like to be able to convert to wav or mp3 format and get my stuff on the internet. If anyone could suggest a good unit or two units (one for 2-track, one for wav) that falls somewhere around $200-$250 that would be great. I don't have a computer so I would need something that could go direct from my 488 to a 2-track casset and that could store wav files. I'm not too sure on how the whole wav file storing part would work so anyone that could enlighten me as to how I would get a recording from my 488 to a wav file and onto a computer that would be awesome. Really my main concern is getting some 2-track casset recordings, if the wav file is a whole diffrent beast then I'll tackle that later. Also on ebay I found a Technics 676 Cassette Deck Mix Down going for pretty cheap, how does this stack up against other units? Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.
 
If it's all you got, then so be it, but cassette decks are awful as mixdown units. Cassette decks in general are sonically inferior to even a minidisc recorder.

If your funds are low, I'd look at using a hi-fi VHS machine instead.... the fidelity is much better overall than that of a cassette deck.
 
I should mix down to minidisc (or any other good medium I'm open to suggestions), and then use another unit for making tapes? OK I think I understand, then what is a good medium for mixing down to that would fall within a $200-$250 price range? If anyone could list some specific model numbers or maybe a good website with more info that would be great, thanks.
 
for the past couple years i was using my old 3700 for the converters and a consumer cd burner from best buy - a phillips 509...i believe. i just sold it for 70 bucks. the dat machine you could find for about 100.

i now use a masterlink and really don't find the results much better...in fact, the top end is funkay in comparison...and i don't mean booker-t and the mg's. :eek:

Mike
 
bigtoe said:
i now use a masterlink and really don't find the results much better...in fact, the top end is funkay in comparison...and i don't mean booker-t and the mg's. :eek:

Mike
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Then there's something seriously wrong with your Masterlink, or the signal chain to the Masterlink. I use one myself, and it is an outstanding unit, and easily outperforms the quality of any DAT machine.
 
more power to ya - that's your opinion on the unit and i'm sure you use it well. mine opinion thus far isn't as favorable but i've only been using it since may.

there's certainly nothing wrong with it or my chain because i don't dig it.

i could very well be used to the sound of the 3700 and need some more adjusting time - but i'll have no problem pitching it and saying i don't dig it if i don't. wouldn't be the first time...won't be the last.

later...

Mike
 
Masters Of War said:
I should mix down to minidisc (or any other good medium I'm open to suggestions), and then use another unit for making tapes? OK I think I understand, then what is a good medium for mixing down to that would fall within a $200-$250 price range? If anyone could list some specific model numbers or maybe a good website with more info that would be great, thanks.
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I'd be careful about minidisc units. While Bruce is right that the minidisc format itself is often superior to the casette format, in my experience there are a *lot* of minidisc recorders out there whose A/D converters are absolutely horrible. Im not talking as a "golden ear" here, I mean some of them are really bad; the resultant minidiscs sound so shrill and brittle on the high end as to be fatiguing to listen to, even to tin ears. If you were to go minidisc, I'd test the performance in the showroom before I plopped down the money just to make sure you're getting a decent one and not one where they skimped on first-generation consumer converters.

Outside of that, I'd also agree that a VHS HiFi is a good way to go. You can get new models in that price range; even better might be a used prosumer VHS HiFi with audio recording level controls. An even better alternative (IMHO, others disagree) would be a used two-track open-reel tape deck. You can usually findt a good TEAC or Pioneer with low hours on it on eBay in that price range with no problem (in a thread a few weeks ago I checked on my old deck that I used to use, a Pioneer RT1020L, and found a completly refurbished and rebuilt one in excellent condition for $200.)

G.
 
bigtoe said:
more power to ya - that's your opinion on the unit and i'm sure you use it well. mine opinion thus far isn't as favorable but i've only been using it since may.

there's certainly nothing wrong with it or my chain because i don't dig it.

i could very well be used to the sound of the 3700 and need some more adjusting time - but i'll have no problem pitching it and saying i don't dig it if i don't. wouldn't be the first time...won't be the last.
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:rolleyes:

It's one thing to say you don't like the unit because of interface, looks, or whatever..... but the one thing you can't fault the Masterlink on is sound quality. A 3700 DAT's 16-bit converters don't come close to the sound quality of the stock 24-bit converters on-board the ML.... and if you use outboard converters with it, then the ML itself is irrelevant since the converters are doing all the work.

So if you're finding something "funky in the high-end", then you've either got a bad unit, or something else wrong in the signal chain because the Masterlink units simply DON'T sound bad. There's certainly nothing "funky in the high-end" in MY machine.....
 
How about CD-R?

Hi,
I've been mixing down to a Fostex CR300 for a while, which is a pro-sumer model CD recorder. I guess people might attack this option and say the analog to digital converters might suck. It seems to work for me. However, I'm now using a SV3700 to back up the CDs, as I'm finding CDs don't last forever.

For your price range, you can definitely afford a decent used stand-alone CD burner. (Philips makes some like this consumer model: http://cgi.ebay.com/Philips-Phillip...ryZ14976QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Maybe the hi-fi VHS recommended here would be better, but CD is definitely easy, as you can take the disc straight to your computer (or your friend's). You'll have to get to computer to start making WAVs and MP3s to my knowledge. There may be an outboard box that will convert to those, but not for cheap probably.

I understand your need to get to cassette, if that's what you exchange and listen to mixes on, but the guys here are urging against that for good reason, because not only do they introduce noise, but your mixes won't last in that medium. You need to first mixdown to something that will last for at least a few years, like CD or DAT. Then worry about dubbing that to a decent cassete deck.
 
"It's one thing to say you don't like the unit because of interface, looks, or whatever..... but the one thing you can't fault the Masterlink on is sound quality."

why? it's like any other piece of gear.

"A 3700 DAT's 16-bit converters don't come close to the sound quality of the stock 24-bit converters on-board the ML.... and if you use outboard converters with it, then the ML itself is irrelevant since the converters are doing all the work."

all due respect - and i'm not interested in arguing, i just don't want to blow ya off here as you seem to be a head honcho around here - but if i don't like the sound of something - whatever the bit rate - i don't like the sound of something. Of course it has to do with how I work.

i don't use outboard AD/DA.

i'm happy to explain myself.

the top end coming off the Masterlink is a little more brittle and toppy than i'm used to...particularly with the upper mids on guitars for some reason…though I record a lot of punk rock/rock and roll so that's what I'm usually hearing. Maybe it's because of the 'better' sound quality my top end is jabbing me at times.

in the same respect - the top coming out of the Ghost Board has a lot more top than the board i had previously been on - a Studiomaster. However - when i switched to the Masterlink in May i was using an HHB Burn it thing with the Ghost board for a couple months. I did not have the same problem.

Just so you know, i've also used tascam cd recorders, tascam dats, sony dats, analog decks, i did not have the same problem...well i did but it was more of a Mackie workaround thing... I'm hoping to get the A80RC I dumped $ into down to the place post haste after we finish up some construction. That'll help…as will working around the sound I'm getting off the Masterlink for the time being. FYI - I find the tascam cd recorders have the best sound to my ear.

i'm not villifying the masterlink - great deck. worthy of it's praise and use - but it's not without it's faults or attributes in it's sound quality...like any other piece of piece of gear. I doubt if I'm the first person to say the masterlink doesn't sound great…or in the same respect I'm not the first person to say 'gee, this ain't cutting it for me.'

Best to ya.

Mike
 
There really isn't a "top guy" around here, just a lot of people with opinions. :D

If you like the sound of your 3700 and it's working for your music, more power to you! I have a 3700 as well, but I don't use it anymore.

Another factor is that the 3700 is what you are used to hearing. It is providing something to the sound that you like and are used to. You mix your songs knowing what they will sound like. When you go to a different converter, it has different characteristics and the end product sounds different. So you know your equipment really well and can get the sound you want out of it.

I don't use the masterlink myself, but I'll bet you could go with a newer converter and get the sound you want out of it once you learned its characteristics. I've done plenty of projects on the 3700, and to me it sounds brittle and a little lacking in body. At least compared to the newer converters, and converter technology is one area that has indeed improved over the years.

I recently bought a UA 2192 AD/DA converter, and it sounds great. If you are concerned about things sounding brittle or "toppy" this would be a great unit for you to check out. It has incredible detail and yet at the same time a very smooth high end and really solid bass. One of my better purchases in a long time.

Anyway, those are just a few random thoughts for the discussion.
 
Masters Of War said:
I've been recording for a little over a year now with a 488 and I'm looking for a unit to start mixing down my tracks to. Most importantly I'm looking to mix down to a 2 track casset, but I would also like to be able to convert to wav or mp3 format and get my stuff on the internet. If anyone could suggest a good unit or two units (one for 2-track, one for wav) that falls somewhere around $200-$250 that would be great. I don't have a computer so I would need something that could go direct from my 488 to a 2-track casset and that could store wav files. I'm not too sure on how the whole wav file storing part would work so anyone that could enlighten me as to how I would get a recording from my 488 to a wav file and onto a computer that would be awesome. Really my main concern is getting some 2-track casset recordings, if the wav file is a whole diffrent beast then I'll tackle that later. Also on ebay I found a Technics 676 Cassette Deck Mix Down going for pretty cheap, how does this stack up against other units? Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.
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master.....try to input to your pc,youll get much higher qual than any cassete. if you must you can accomplish this via a simple 1/8" jack into the pc's mic input on the back...of course some sort of usb or midi interface would be superior, but this will accomplish what you seek.

You may then mix, and master via any number of diff software packages.......and burn a cd of any file type you need as well.

Id stay away from cassete stuff if at all possible.
hope I helped.


-j
 
bigtoe said:
all due respect - and i'm not interested in arguing, i just don't want to blow ya off here as you seem to be a head honcho around here - but if i don't like the sound of something - whatever the bit rate - i don't like the sound of something.
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For one thing, I think you mean bit-depth or bit-resolution, bit-rate has NOTHING to do with this whatsoever since it's a term that's only relevant when talking about compressed audio or video formats. (Bit rate is the transfer rate of bits per second.)

bigtoe said:
the top end coming off the Masterlink is a little more brittle and toppy than i'm used to...particularly with the upper mids on guitars for some reason…though I record a lot of punk rock/rock and roll so that's what I'm usually hearing. Maybe it's because of the 'better' sound quality my top end is jabbing me at times.

in the same respect - the top coming out of the Ghost Board has a lot more top than the board i had previously been on - a Studiomaster. However - when i switched to the Masterlink in May i was using an HHB Burn it thing with the Ghost board for a couple months. I did not have the same problem.

Just so you know, i've also used tascam cd recorders, tascam dats, sony dats, analog decks, i did not have the same problem...well i did but it was more of a Mackie workaround thing... I'm hoping to get the A80RC I dumped $ into down to the place post haste after we finish up some construction. That'll help…as will working around the sound I'm getting off the Masterlink for the time being. FYI - I find the tascam cd recorders have the best sound to my ear.

i'm not villifying the masterlink - great deck. worthy of it's praise and use - but it's not without it's faults or attributes in it's sound quality...like any other piece of piece of gear. I doubt if I'm the first person to say the masterlink doesn't sound great…or in the same respect I'm not the first person to say 'gee, this ain't cutting it for me.'
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The reason I'm making my point about this at all is because I beleive you're mistakenly pointing to the wrong source as the cause of your "funky high-end"..... but maybe I'm wrong in presuming that you'd like to get to the bottom of finding out WHY you're getting a "funky high-end" in the first place....

I actually don't give a rat's ass whether you like the Masterlink or not, but based on the symptoms you've described, you're blaming the wrong piece of gear for the problem. If your highs are too toppy, and the Masterlink is revealing enough that it demonstrates this issue to you, that's not a fault of the Masterlink, that's a sonic issue that you need to address earlier in your chain or in your mix processing.

You blaming the ML for your sonic problems is like someone saying, "wow, my mixes sound like crap through those ADAM monitors, I guess those ADAMs aren't really that good after all...", rather than beleiveing that their mixes are crap instead....

Ged'dit?
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
You might want to cut down on the fiber in your diet. :D

Just having fun, bass; everybody screws the pooch in this forum on occasion. ;)

G.
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thats cool..Im into it...i got arrested for screwing a pooch in Idaho one night...... :eek:

thats what happens when ya combine jack daniels, efferdent, tic tacs and mushrooms. :)


how the hell did i miss that?




okay heres an idea master....


get a pc. :)


sorry for being useless. :rolleyes:
 
Yikes. *TWEEEEEEET* Canada. Hit the shower, brother. Sorry for the misnomer on the bit thang, but otherwise - you're kinda outta line and not giving me the same respect in communication i'm giving you. Peace and chicken grease, my man. edit- ah...i did a search...you're one of those message board perpetual weenies... :eek: hahahahaha. i'll ignore ya from now on.

Sonic Albert - very well said and thank you. My point of bringing up the sv3700 and the consumer burner before the canadian flame streaked thru is that it can give good results on a tight budget which is what the original poster asked for. I guess i shouldn't have brought up the Masterlink and my observations.

BTW -We are looking into standalone converters - we're actually computerless right now but i think we're going to go that route. Thanks for the tip on the UA 2192 AD/DA converter.

So, anyone wanna buy a masterlink? :eek:

Later days,

Mike
 
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Oh, you wanted sound quality? jusk kidding. The consumer CD burners probably would be blasted in here for sounding like shite, but I'm guessing you're at a place where you just want something reliable and cost effective. Some might say go for a used DAT instead, but the media is more expensive and you can't take it and play it in your car, PC, home stereo. I'd argue for someone like yourself, the quality will be good enough for now, and you'll be mixing to fairly reliable media that's easy to play on other machines.

Down the line you can think about spending thousands on outboard A/D converters like these super dudes in here. Unfortunately, for mere mortals like you and me, our ears probably would never even hear the difference. You'd hear way more difference working on mixing technique, like EQing, compressing. Look for an old Orban 622B EQ for around $200 and really learn how to use it. It's amazing what a decent musical EQ will mean to low-fi guys like us using cheaper mixing boards with shitty EQs and preamps. Late.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
if your funds are low, I'd look at using a hi-fi VHS machine instead.... the fidelity is much better overall than that of a cassette deck.
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ive been pretty inventive over the years..but man...thats just F'n genius!..i never thought of doing that back in the day. :p
 
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