what do you track on your 2488, vocals? instruments?

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BMWerks

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In a band recording, what do you usually record on what tracks, and when? I.E., drums=2,4 or 6 tracks, bass trk7&8, guitars=9&10 etc....Is there a "standard" procedure as to what tracks get recorded first and in what order? What system gives you the best results in tracking to the 2488?
 
Band in a Box

hey, B! they shut down the old 2488 thread!!?? :)

sonic perfection aside.... :rolleyes:

1 thing comes to mind on that Band question.

1)When I used to record a few live acts..hard rock, country, or Bluegrass...
on my 4-track cassette.
The Band would play altogether "live". Track 1&2 for example.

Then each could play along with the "live" track.(bouncing down of course)
Which # track didn't seem to matter? i don't get your question obviously.

None I knew were pro's, so playing alone was difficult for the most of 'em, hence the live-dummy track to play along with.

and i didn't know wht the fk i was doing! :eek:
these young'uns have it so lucky with sht like HR and the free advice!

you going live with your 2488??
 
New 2488 thread. Anybody?

Yeah Cool. They shut us down. But not for long. Must have been Reel's profanity. He said the f word if I recall.

Anyway, we've got a brand new one here. Better watch our language or they'll shut us down here too!

I read your resp. to my question to you on what you 're tracking etc..(the old 2488 thread) but didn't know if I lost you cuz I couldn't reply. Thats' why I made this one. I figured you'd arrive sooner or later.

Yeah. I got from your response that you understood the question. I did pretty much the same with our (our band) band's 244. Before the Tascam 244 we were using my Webcor "sound on sound" (stereo) 1/4" R to R. What a monster. (It weighed in at just over 1,750 lbs.) But so was my TSR-8. (300 lbs.)

Anyway, Through the years, hanging with other studio musicians came some free knowlege. For multi-tracking, Of course, the more tracks you used, the more it cost, the more time it took, the more it cost...etc..so, when tracking, we always had to think economy. That meant LOTS OF PRE-PRODUCTION. We had to do our "homework" BEFORE we arrived at the studio. We got 4 harmonies on 2 tracks, recorded 1/2 the drum kit on one track and the other half on another track. (no virtual tracks) Example; track one=1/2 kit, (snare, toms and kick) trk two=symbols, hi-hat & cow bell, Tamb. trk three bass trk four lead guit, trk 5&6 keys and pads and all vocals back-ups and lead vocal in what ever combination was the most "economical", trks 7&8. We put a hell of a lot of music on 8 tracks. We had to think about keeping the vocal tracks toward the center , tracks 3&4 or 5&6 because after repeated shuttling, the tape got stretched at the outer edges and made the vocals phase in and out. (nightmare city that old analog crap).

Now I have the 2488. See how everybodys' happy now? :D ;) :rolleyes: :) :eek: :D :rolleyes: :) :D :)
 
2488 Tracking and Mixing..... (Mastering?)

BMWerks said:
when tracking, we always had to think economy. That meant LOTS OF PRE-PRODUCTION. We had to do our "homework" BEFORE we arrived at the studio. We got 4 harmonies on 2 tracks, recorded 1/2 the drum kit on one track and the other half on another track. (no virtual tracks) Example; track one=1/2 kit, (snare, toms and kick) trk two=symbols, hi-hat & cow bell, Tamb. trk three bass trk four lead guit, trk 5&6 keys and pads and all vocals back-ups and lead vocal in what ever combination was the most "economical", trks 7&8. We put a hell of a lot of music on 8 tracks. We had to think about keeping the vocal tracks toward the center , tracks 3&4 or 5&6 because after repeated shuttling, the tape got stretched at the outer edges and made the vocals phase in and out. (nightmare city that old analog crap).
QUOTE]

thats interesting.

I'm asking about the next step you did- Mixing: Pan,EQ,Effects...

so was there a basic pan "rule" you would start at before getting creative?
and i've read about the frequency-crowding...so did you have a starting place
with the EQ to prevent crowding?
ex: drop 500hz off the backing vocals and pan at 2 o'clock.

I have to thank you so much. You've added such a tremendous fix to my technique in Tracking- it works for me and has been so refreshing to move forward.
Tracking in Mono and No Eq.....get the performance down #1.
its awesome... I feel I've graduated!!or seen the light at least!
as a tunesmith head...the Tracking is probably my most enjoyable for sure.


But back to...Mixing!!!!! :)
pan, EQing (no freq crowding)...dropping IN/OUT...
or giving each player their time as you said.

you notice everywhere REEL posts, that acorn shows up?? whooa whats up with that?? that'd make me cuss-virtually too....
Click to expand...
 
This is not your father's recording box!

acornha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats' so funny!!!!!!!

Thanks for the boot up Cool.

Rule of thumb, pretty simple really, we usually (always) tracked every thing flat. No EQing to start. After a while, say, 8,10, maybe 16 tracks recorded, (critical listening through-out) masking becomes enevitable. Thats OK though beacause theres' always parts of tracks and sometimes whole tracks that get dumped. (keeping it simple) However, this is where you might need to get away from the project for a while and observe from a distance. (be objective W/ critical listening) Then, when you come back, you still hear masking, (Don't confuse blending, where two or more instruments share the same frequency space intentionally, with masking. BTW, you're correct in knowing that frequency crowding IS masking) it's time to do some gradient EQing. WARNING! DO NOT EXAGERATE FREQUENCY MOVES! Make subtle changes and start by reducing frequency levels. Not increasing. practice your "solo" button skills to create content differential. Think contrast. All the while considering what the main event of that particular measure is. (how important one vocal/instrument(s) is over another. Creative lisence has a lot to do with this area. I like to get much of the content down in mono Switching back and forth from stereo to mono to bring separation about BEFORE panning. What and when to pan are also really important to the scheme of the song. (package if you will)

Experiment A LOT!.......when mixing. But make your tracking performance stand up on it's oun and be wonderfull. Don't try to "fix it in the mix". Try different setings all the time. Get familiar with how EQing, dynamics limiting, compresion and panning can damage a piece as well as enhance it.

Remember the "item" you're trying to communicate musically and consider all the support members that enhance the main feature of the piece. Everything (all the instruments and vocals) is important in their rank. I try to give as much respect to that truth as possible.

When things get too complicated for me, and I start getting cornfused, I'll wipe out some tracks, step back and identify the good stuff. Sometimes you have to trash entire tracks you originally thought were "BRILLIANT" because they didn't enhance the main feature of the piece or was redundant. Like, OK, the sax player was drunk. We can do without him anyway. Or, Take the damn tamberine and maracas away from the the kids. (this is of course in the mix not in the tracking.) Which BTW, is the beauty of having 24 tracks. You can trash them if you don't think they work. As well, as add them to enhance the mix.

The fun and glory is in the journey. The piece is never "finished".

May the fader gods be with you! :o
 
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Tracking to Mixing....

damn B! i'll have to read this one a few times. masking and gradients.



Rami glad you record vocals and instruments...
 
What bird early likes cheese?

RAMI said:
Yes, that's correct.
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing the bird and the mouse in the same picture. :confused:

Never mind. I get it. The first mouse got wacked. Right? So, the second mouse came along and took the cheese that was in the trap! Right?

OK. But what about the bird? Is the bird with the worm the same bird you have in your hand that you sacrificed for the two in the bush? :confused:
 
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COOLCAT said:
damn B! i'll have to read this one a few times. masking and gradients.



Rami glad you record vocals and instruments...
Click to expand...

It may have been the word "subtle" that threw you Cool. Please take your time You have a lot more than Me.
 
2488

off the subject..

did you hear the 2488 has a new firmware upgrade 1.02.
it was mentioned it adds finer steps to the faders...especially the lower level!
i might be trying this...damn...my unit has been no problems tho?

definately have to back up everything...
 
Didn't work for me.

I tried it but my 2488 wouldn't accept the upload. Mine still says 1.01.(something got loaded on the CD Because I could see it.) Don't know why, I'm probably doing something wrong or don't have the proper hardware on my PC to accept the download correctly. I still have this scratch sound/glitch at the end of all my finalized CDs'. Wonder if the upgrade would solve that problem. Hmmmm? :confused:
 
yes, i'm not a software head so i can't help either...

but these 2488 revisions/upgardes are cool!
they are doing stuff like fixing your pop noise, adding effects, adding more Mastering effects aka Limiter better compression something ...
and making the short throw faders more precision at the low level so it doesn't "cut out" (version 1.02)..

and its all free!

i've never done an upgrade yet. and would hate for it to mess up my perfectly working unit....but for the improved faders and Mastering additions (Limiters added)... I may have to do it soon.

some threads said its soooo easy to upgrade the firmware version?
 
Is Muddy Mixes = Masking???

Excerpt:
BTW, you're correct in knowing that frequency crowding IS masking) it's time to do some gradient EQing. WARNING! DO NOT EXAGERATE FREQUENCY MOVES! Make subtle changes and start by reducing frequency levels. Not increasing. practice your "solo" button skills to create content differential. Think contrast. All the while considering what the main event of that particular measure is. (how important one vocal/instrument(s) is over another. Creative lisence has a lot to do with this area.

So I delved into this yesterday.
Yes, Mixing is where the "Mud" has to be dealt with...

So basically I recorded this simple song. Trying to utilize these new-found learnings.

1) click-track for timing.
(don't really need to waste a track with the 2488)
I prefer a snare or kick as the metronome sound...altho the metronome sounds kinda like a hi-hat!)

2) Rythm- Tuned up & Tightly worked out chord arrangement for the rest of the band to follow.
usually either Rythm Guitar chords is the Structure/Foundation of the song.
....And as you said it needs to be "the performance"
IMO it's critical as everything will be built upon this Rythm structure aka foundation. If your foundation is messed up..

3) Vocal. I think my agreement is to mute nearly everything, and sing along with the main Rythm. one article said singing along with the bass can really mess up alot of singers notes. or missing the beat, i call it.
might leave the drums on if it offers a rythmic human feel for singing.
but try to keep it simple and focused on Verds and Wocals.
Songwriting wise, its nice to have its seperate track to re-write a line or two.
One clean Vox trac and One split off thru Comp'd etc.. I recently read this is Motown trick to bring Life into the Vox track.

other stuff was then tracked on top of this. as I said 24 tracks full.
and each track was alright...sounded ok in MONO..
but of course a bit muddy...or Masking i think going on.

So mixing starts:
Adjusted the levels up, in MONO, ok....doen't expect much here, its Mono.
STEREO...yeah sounds sweet...first few plays.


SOLOing:
So taking your suggestion I began solo-ing tracks, a somewhat timely & painful task, and several mistakes were corrected or bits erased out.

others were found to be masking (ok)...
some piano parts where I had tried 3-4 tracks filling in where my talent ability hinders me (just overdub!)... so alot was removed.

next thing I realize is I have a few tracks not needed? I couldn't even hear them when taken out of the mix!!!

very strange this World of Sound......

I really want to get this moving as I have another song to write and then I'll never finish this one!! :eek:
 
"Got to make the moment last"............

Man! You've sure come a loooong way :eek:

Man the lifeboats! Grab the fire extinguishers, save all the women and children first! And get the hell out of the way!

Here comes Cool!!!

I like the fact that you're beginning to hear the whole concept of the song as finished at the beginnings of your project. You sound like you're still able to be spontanious as you are proceeding through the grusome procedure. I only hope my advice and direction doesn't inhibit your sparkling genieus.

Well done man! You're the brave one. I have more to write but it's 12:01 and I have to be up at 5:30 AM.

Chereo!
 
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COOLCAT said:
yes, i'm not a software head so i can't help either...

but these 2488 revisions/upgardes are cool!
they are doing stuff like fixing your pop noise, adding effects, adding more Mastering effects aka Limiter better compression something ...
and making the short throw faders more precision at the low level so it doesn't "cut out" (version 1.02)..

and its all free!

i've never done an upgrade yet. and would hate for it to mess up my perfectly working unit....but for the improved faders and Mastering additions (Limiters added)... I may have to do it soon.

some threads said its soooo easy to upgrade the firmware version?
Click to expand...


upgrades are very easy and you will immediately see an improvement. i had a few little bugs and than i did the upgrade and they were fixed.

the instructions are pretty clear and if you follow them there isnt a problem.

this 1.02 version sounds nice - especially the new effects. im not really a fan of the compressor on the machine so maybe the new one will be better.
 
I'll never understand why there are 3 different types of compressors on the 2488. The STEREO compressor has ratios the way I'm used to working (2:1, 4:1, etc...). But the channel compressors have ratio that goes from 1-100. Why would they do that? I found out from TASCAM that 50= approx. 2:1, 100= approx. 4:1...but still. To make things even weirder, the compressor that's in the multi-effects is totally the opposite of the channel compressor. It also goes 1-100, but instead of 100 being the highest ratio, it's the lowest, and 1 is the highest. It's really weird that they would have done this as opposed to being consistent.
Also, there's a flaw in the JOG/SCROLL mode, but I'll keep this to one complaint per post. Believe it or not, I love this machine, but it bothers me that they didn't get it perfect.
 
Everybody says "It's so easy" Yeeeeeaaaahhh....

"the instructions are pretty clear and if you follow them there isnt a problem." I know the instructions are CLEAR!

I may not be a genious but I followed the instructions four times. The exact same way the instructions says. My 2488 is not uploading the info. Period. Or, all the data didn't get written to the CD on my PC. ( I could see that the CD had something written to it) I kept getting error messages like, writing process incomplete, please shut down, retry, etc..."It appears theres' something preventing the data from getting written from my PC to the CD and, the CD is not loading to the 2488 even after we followed the instructions to the T. We tried three different brands of CD-r's. :mad:
 
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cheesy

thats messed up. you think they could make it straight forward.

i was reading on this too, it appears there's some strange software thats required to create the correct CDR or some sht and only then it will work... extensions. or some bllsht.

B, saw your post like.."why can't Tascam just make one available to purchase ?" .... very strange they don't make it available.

and the fact they don't just publically list the fixes makes me wonder.
I used to offer customer free upgrades for equipment. the new revision always had a sheet stating what exactly the new revision will do.
some customers wanted it, some didn't....and sometimes it would fhk up their tools!!! seriously..then I'd have to re-install the original just to get the tool working again! :rolleyes:

kinda cheesy how their going about this whole upgrade... download it yourself and find out on the forum what someone maybe kinda thinks its supposed to improve.
 
Tracking and recording

getting to the original question...Tracking.

Here's a clip from George Martin- Making Music

Quite often we would put bass and drums together on one track, guitars on another, lead vocal on the third and we would preserve the fourth track for "extras" like lead guitar, or backing voices, or whatever.
In more complicated songs, where we obviously needed more tracks, we would transfer our four tracks to two on another four track machine and then fill up the two virgin tracks. pg271
 
COOLCAT said:
getting to the original question...Tracking.

Here's a clip from George Martin- Making Music

Quite often we would put bass and drums together on one track, guitars on another, lead vocal on the third and we would preserve the fourth track for "extras" like lead guitar, or backing voices, or whatever.
In more complicated songs, where we obviously needed more tracks, we would transfer our four tracks to two on another four track machine and then fill up the two virgin tracks. pg271
Click to expand...

We were doing similar things in the 60's only with two (2) tracks! :eek:

That's cool Cool. Today's challenges are digital and the obsticles are many times more intricate than those days. But the program materials are far more qualified and easier to manipulate, control and contain.

Yep. You would think someone else would come forward and say they're having the same problem I'm having. Makes me wonder if my 2488 is a 2487. :eek:

It's OK though, I'm still getting great results. But, I have nothing to compare them with. Stay tuned for news at 11:00! :rolleyes:
 
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