what cymbal is this?

T

tremblayj

Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K00yZdaIHn4&feature=related

so i am primarily a guitarist/singer but i have been playing more and more drums lately and really want to put a good kit together which now leads me to the cymbals.
i enjoy the type of music shown in this clip (minus the singer) and am wondering what that ride cymbal is. i am playing with a lot of indie/ambient type bands and want a ride that i can ride (duh) but also use as a crash or just ride really hard to have that full sound like heard in this clip.
any other suggestions of similar cymbals would be great as well. if i havn;t been clear on what i am looking for then please tell me.
thanks
 
Looks like a Zildjian A Custom in the video: Zildjian A Custom Ride

There are a few variations (standard, medium, ping, projection) - but most the A Customs sound similar. There's obviously a good deal of technique that goes into the final sound (which the drummer in the video had a distinct lack of), but in general, thinner rides work better for crashing and working up that "swell" without being overpowering. The A Custom standard ride is a good all-around. Sabian also made a ride several years back in their Hand Hammered line called the "vintage" ride that had a similar wash to it.
 
thanks a bunch for the response, definitely cleared up a few questions of mine.
one other thing, any suggestions on the technique side or resources that you can direct me towards in order to get that swell? i can;t say i really have any experience with it and i will practice it on my own of course but a little direction so that i don;t start any bad habits would be greatly beneficial.
once again, thanks
 
tremblayj said:
thanks a bunch for the response, definitely cleared up a few questions of mine.
one other thing, any suggestions on the technique side or resources that you can direct me towards in order to get that swell? i can;t say i really have any experience with it and i will practice it on my own of course but a little direction so that i don;t start any bad habits would be greatly beneficial.
once again, thanks
Click to expand...

Listen to and watch videos of the great jazz drummers. Jazz drummers really play their cymbals much more than rock drummers do. Buddy Rich is always a safe one to look at. Steve Gadd, Vinny Coliauto, Steve Smith, Jeff Tain Watts,Art Blakey, Papa Joe Jones, Louis Bellson, Max Roach are among the many others to look at.
 
I'm with RimShot here... the jazz greats all had amazing control on their cymbals.

Find a good teacher in your area and let him/her give you some guidance. It's hard to beat having someone actually watch you and make corrections.

Here are a few video ideas for you, too:

Primer video with Peter Erskine:
[video=youtube;<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/vAcK3zibrvw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/vAcK3zibrvw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>]video[/video]

One of the ultimate masters of the ride (IMO), Tony Williams:
[video=youtube;<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/GDu6w66F5dU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/GDu6w66F5dU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>]video[/video]
 
Damn! Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams. One of the GREAT match-ups in jazz history.

Here is an older video of Jeff "Tain" Watts playing with Branford Marsalis. He is a heavier hitter than a lot of the more traditional jazz drummers, but I really love his style of playing. Check it out he plays his drums and cymbals with equal musicality and doesn't just rely on his cymbals for crash accents.
[video=youtube;CPEgesK0KKQ&feature=related]video[/video]

Oh and Rami, you may have heard of Buddy Rich, he sang a song with Kermit the Frog once.
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tremblayj said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K00yZdaIHn4&feature=related

so i am primarily a guitarist/singer but i have been playing more and more drums lately and really want to put a good kit together which now leads me to the cymbals.
i enjoy the type of music shown in this clip (minus the singer) and am wondering what that ride cymbal is. i am playing with a lot of indie/ambient type bands and want a ride that i can ride (duh) but also use as a crash or just ride really hard to have that full sound like heard in this clip.
any other suggestions of similar cymbals would be great as well. if i havn;t been clear on what i am looking for then please tell me.
thanks
Click to expand...

Although I generally think of Tony Williams as an Istanbul K. Zildjian type drummer, that cymbal has more of an A sound, so I'm going to say it was a Avedis Zildjian crash ride. At the time, Avedis Zildjian did not make types like Customs etc...
I doubt that Tony's cymbal sounded like that live, as there a lot of recording factors going on there that I hear.
The best value in cymbals is Wuhan, although they don't have a sound good for everything. AZ's are pretty cheap used.
A ride cymbal is the hardest type of cymbal to find... crashes are easy compared.
I would watch Craigslist and try some out live. And also, the type of stick makes a big difference in the sound of cymbals.
Don't be scared of cymbals with some cracks that can drilled. My best cymbals are that way. Look at cracks as a way to get a great cymbal dirt cheap. Cracks I drilled 35 years ago have not advanced. You could get an cracked Isty K for $100 that without cracks could go for $2000.
With me I've noticed that most cymbals sound best with really light sticks, whereas floor toms sound best with big clubs, so it's always a compromise to find something that sounds good on both.
The best place to get cymbals is used, although they vary ridiculously and I'd have a hard time buying one without trying it first.
 
To piggyback on what was said above: Never never never buy a cymbal without playing it first - with your sticks. Nothing is more disappointing than having a cymbal sound completely different in your studio than it did in the showroom.

Also, cracks may be a way to get a good cymbal cheap, but they will also (in many cases) substantially alter the sound of the cymbal. If they were really comparable in sound after being cracked, a cracked K would not sell for $100, but closer to $500. (99% of cymbals - even a collector's piece - would be worth more than maybe $1000.)

Cheers
 
I'm sure it can alter the sound... it has too of course... but the ones I've done didn't seem to change that you'd ever notice. It was like the cymbal was capable of doing so many different sounds that you'd never notice.

A friend of mine (15 years ago) bought an Istanbul K. (old stamp circa 1956) for a dollar at a swap meet. He gave it to me and I had to radically drill and cut it, but it ended up sounding fantastic.

K's do go for a lot now... the real Istanbul K's. There was a newer 70's one that went for $1900 a couple of weeks ago on eBay. I've seen them list for $10K but never sell, but I would imagine we will see that.

So ya, check out used ones. The best value is used 60's-70's Avedis Zildjian -hihats $150, rides $100 -200 crashes $60 - 120... and that's what a lot of major hits were done with. Problem with those cymbals is that lots of them sound undesirable. I like Wuhans for some reason but in a way I don't take them seriously. I bought a set of used Wuhan hihats for $45 and they sound crappy but funky and are fun to play for awhile and then I get tired of them. They are in a way the poor man's Istanbul K. Zildjian.
 
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Oh, no doubt. . .

My favorite cymbal is a 70's Zilciler (before AGOP Istanbul) 16" crash/ride. Used, but a beautiful K-like sound. But no cracks :rolleyes:

Yep, used cymbals are almost always a good choice.
 
ya i am definitely going to look for some used cymbals as i went to my local music sore today and saw that these cymbals are far too expensive for me at 23 years wanting to have a good sound but only jamming and doing personal recordings.
But its good to have a better idea of what i am looking for. i realized that most the rides i have played were very heavy and there was no way of using them to get that swell sound unless you killed the things (and everyone yells at the drummer for being too loud).
 
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