What could possibly go wrong with this plan?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CyanJaguar
  • Start date Start date
So, if his music is 'better' than yours, then the points in his post are valid? Is that what you're saying?

Bullshit.

The points in his post can stand on their own, without his having to produce any of his music. His music could be absolutely wonderful and he still might not have a contract coming his way - everybody knows that.

Re-read Slack's post. He said what I was going to say, plus extra.
 
this is for you DOBRO.

Slackmaster2K said:
1) You don't write excpetional hooks (at least not yet).

Its been almost a year since slackmaster heard anything from me. IN that time, the wildcard has become my ONLY focus.

2) Your vocal intonation is still way off.

Again, its been a year and mindsets have changed. Then, I was still trying to be a "singer" and sing in a popular range. Now I understand that all of that is secondary to the music.

3) The music biz consists of wall to wall marketing people. The benefit of a musician/writer with marketing skills is nil.

That's what a non-marketing minded person thinks. The benefit of a musician with marketing skills is actually immense. And the idea that one can't stand out in a crowd is borne primarily out of fear.

4) College degrees do not qualify you for work anymore. Your degree just offers you a chance at a lowly position where you still have to learn your way to the top. Selling music isn't going to be the same as selling widgets.

I agree with the first part. Performance on the job is what differentiates a person. I disagree with the second point. Selling is selling ( a profession), whether one is selling pink elephants or poetry.

5) If you read the bios of most pop artists today, they've all moved thousands of miles, slept in garages, gone without food, etc etc.

Or maybe they did not.

6) You insist on calling hooks wildcards :)

simply put, not all hooks/chorus are wildcards, and not all wildcards are hooks/choruses.

7) If the talent on this board blows your mind, then you've set your sights way too low. The people on this board are great and the music is a joy...but only one or two people in 4 years have blown my mind.

I only know two or three people on this board that blow my mind.

I'm being honest with you because I don't think that your plan of meeting p.diddy is going to launch any music career, and you could really screw yourself in the process. Take that 5K and use it as a down payment on a house. Get a job and spend all your free time writing music. Get a group together and perform as much as possible. Start a small indie label and make records for college bands. By the time you're ready to make a big move, you'll really be ready...and if it doesn't work out, you'll have something to fall back on.

Nobody ever got extra-ordinary results by doing ordinary things.
There is a lot of validity to the idea of the self-fulfilling prophecy. If you are negative and afraid, then you'll achieve negative results. If you are positive and confident, then you'll achieve positive results.
Slackmaster 2000 [/B]
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dobro said:
So, if his music is 'better' than yours, then the points in his post are valid? Is that what you're saying?

Bullshit.
Click to expand...

NO. If his music contains wildcards, then we have to look for another problem why he is not getting a record deal.

If his music does not contain wildcards, then that is the problem.
 
Cyan Jaguar,
Man, I'm not trying to burst your bubble and I admire your tenacity. The intent of my first post here was to prevent you from making what COULD be a mistake. Obviously someone who believes in himself like you do stands a much better chance succeeding in life. There are a lot of unknowns to you. Right now while you have the world by the tail, you need to know that there's teeth on the other end.
I responded to your post in my thread over in the mp3 clinic, and I don't know if you read it or not. I'm just saying it's not going to be nearly as easy as you think. Trust me on this one.


bd
 
Thanks for the reply. oh, I know that its not going to be easy. There will be rejections and rebuttals and what not. Think about it this way. There are more than 50 major labels out there. I only have to sell one.

I do sincerely believe that I have an offering that will add substantially to the financial bottom-line of any record company, and that is why I press on. 6 months ago, I would have said it was impossible, now I know that with lots of conviction, confidence, and persistence, the sale will be made.

There are a lot of unknowns to me, and I am realizing that the more I reduce the unknowns, the more my chances of success increase. ONe thing I know though is that record companies want to make money and I know that I can get the offering , that elusive smash hit, that will make them a lot of money.
 
lots of luck

Dude, I like your MOXI (sp.?) If it doesn't work out, come on down 95 about 5 hours and I'll give you a job!
Anyway, confidence and belief in the product (apparantly neither of which are lacking in you) are very important in sales.
I sincerely hope it works for you. OBTW, what the hell is a wildcard?
I write and I can't ever remember using one. Not on purpose anyway. A hook maybe, a verse, for sure, an unbelievable story, a stretch.
The wildcard for me is always: "WILL IT SELL?"(will people like it-----or better yet will they like ME??????)
An old boss of mine once told me:
There are 3 reasons people buy from you:
1.They like you----2.They trust you----------And a very distant 3rd-----The benifits or the product.
Just get 'em to like you dude.

-OK
 
very good point okobd,

a few of the guys that take class with me sell banking services. For them, the key is to get friendly with the prospect then sneak the pitch in after the prospects are comfortable with the seller.

A book I read put it aptly this way: The best and easiest way to make a sale is to make the prospect feel good about whatever it is they are buying. Hence the friendship and trust.

A wildcard is anything in a song (for me a melodic aspect) that will make you want to listen to the song over and over and over. I believe that certain melodic phrases trigger chemical reactions that make our bodies feel good after listening to the phrase.
 
really?!

whatta they callit?
on·o·mato·poe·ia
2. the use of words whose sound suggests the sense
- on·o·mato·poe·ic /-'pE-ik/ or on·o·mato·po·et·ic /-pO-'e-tik/ adjective

somethin like that?
-ok
 
hey cyan,

i wish you the best of luck my friend. don't stop dreaming. as soon as you do that you die.
 
You should really look at the numbers man. If i had all that Marketing knowledge(your degrees or what not) I would start my own label.

If u can sale 5000 to 10,000 cds a year independently u would make alot of money, and u would be doing what u wanna do. If u know how to market and know the ins - and outs u could build a small team yourself and market/promote ur own ish. Plus, u would have total controll of ur whole project.

With 5k-6k(ur savings) u could really do some good things but u gotta research ur area and ur market geographically. If u build up a fan base, then P.Diddy will come running to u.....like all the record labels came running at Lil Flip......that's my dawg, but I hear all the time that Flip can't flow(this is from people that don't like his music) but Lil Flip ballin outta control.

"Learn to Read numbers and not words and you'll be better off." R. Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad book.

That Texas Fella
sugaty@aol.com
 
flossyboy said:
You should really look at the numbers man. If i had all that Marketing knowledge(your degrees or what not) I would start my own label.

If u can sale 5000 to 10,000 cds a year independently u would make alot of money, and u would be doing what u wanna do. If u know how to market and know the ins - and outs u could build a small team yourself and market/promote ur own ish. Plus, u would have total controll of ur whole project.

With 5k-6k(ur savings) u could really do some good things but u gotta research ur area and ur market geographically. If u build up a fan base, then P.Diddy will come running to u.....like all the record labels came running at Lil Flip......that's my dawg, but I hear all the time that Flip can't flow(this is from people that don't like his music) but Lil Flip ballin outta control.

"Learn to Read numbers and not words and you'll be better off." R. Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad book.

That Texas Fella
sugaty@aol.com
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Dude, that's hot. I did not even think of it that way. That's such a good idea though, and I'll definitely keep it at the top of my list.

Now, if sluice or chrisharris would just sign to my label...
 
erichenryus said:
hey cyan,

i wish you the best of luck my friend. don't stop dreaming. as soon as you do that you die.
Click to expand...

thanks eric,

you have always been a source of upliufting for me.
 
CyanJaguar said:
I decided that I finally have enough of what it takes to be in the industry and I am going to go for broke - next year when I graduate.

HEre is my plan. I think I have the three things one needs to succeed in music.

Marketing: I have a marketing degree, with a focus in selling.

Music : I know what listeners reward and can write them - WILDCARDS

Business: I'll have my MBA next year.



THE PLAN
What I want to do next year, as soon as I graduate, is take my savings (maybe $5k-6k ) and move to NYC for two months looking for a record deal or job with a big record label(BAD BOY, ARISTA)

The plan is to try to sell myself as
one: An artist who knows what the market wants, knows how to get it, and is not just looking for handouts.

IF that does not work,
two: A marketing person who knows how to find hit songs and has worked with enough artists to be able to get the talent together to make a hit offering.

I honestly want to walk into P.Diddy's office and be like," If you dont hire me, someone else will, and you'll regret it before two years are up"

What do you guys think? Any chance of this not succeeding?
IF it does not (I know it will succeed) then I'll start law school in the fall of next year.
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You forgot 3) A sales job in McDonald's or Burger King.

No offense, but you will need a few years experience to even get to an interview with the top guys. NYC will eat you up and spit you out all in the same day. Try step 1) Graduate and land a job in the music biz (any reasonable job) and let your experience take you wherever you will go.
 
..

"What could possibly go wrong with this plan?"


You could listen to bad advice from people who, although well-intentioned, no longer share your drive or passion (or never did). Don't get derailed. The ones who succeed in this business are the ones who get knocked down and just keep getting up, brushing themselves off, and charging ahead again. Sure, most have talent, but the successful ones all have something else. Drive, Desire, Passion.
Go take your bite out of the Big Apple. When you’re doing A&R for Sony, maybe we could send you a demo? Ya think?


BB
 
HEre is my plan. I think I have the three things one needs to succeed in music.

Marketing: I have a marketing degree, with a focus in selling.

Music : I know what listeners reward and can write them - WILDCARDS

Business: I'll have my MBA next year.



Good Luck on whichever path you decide to take. "Entrance" into the music game doesn't take a degree. It takes dedication which it sounds like you have. Don't expect Puff Daddy or any other producer to give you mercy or the benefit of some doubt. The only way to make it where you want to be is to figure out your plan, then make changes. You'll be making a lot of changes. Thats why perseverence is a big deal. Thats what keeps you going. A back up plan to me has always been a "in case I don't get there, I've got this", but I look at it like, "this is where i'm going... how do i get there?"

Use whatever tools you need. If someone wants to call it a "backup plan" let them. But you know with that the tools you've assembled thru marketing, your "wildcards", and business you'll succeed.

Don't lose focus and you'll succeed.
 
I doubt $5k will last you one month in NY unless you have some good friends or family to mooch off of. Expecting results in 2 months is hopelessly optimistic. Even if you get a gig you probably won't make enough to actually support yourself in NY so you will still need people to help you out.

Getting a flunky job isn't hard. Getting into the door to get a flunky job is the hard part. Everybody who works at a label has a friend/lover/relative waiting in line. Without an inside connection your chances are next to none. Spend your energy getting that inside connection BEFORE you go to NY unless you can arrange to spend a year or two there.

Drop this 'Wildcard' bullshit. I know I fuck around with you about it but it's simply a 'hook' and nothing more. If you go in spouting that shit to people who have been in the business they are going to think your are a first class wanker. There is nothing new under the sun and as soon as you act like there is then you just put yourself in the role of a naive fool. Keep it to yourself until you get to know people and then still keep it to yourself, lol.

Good luck. Nothing ventured nothing gained and at worst your only out a few grand.
 
I agree with the possible money problems in New York with only 5 to 6 thousand dollars. Do you have credit cards?
There are so many expenses that you are probably not even thinking of yet. I dont know where you are from but NY is pretty damn expensive for everything.

I still think you should go if it is your dream, however keep in mind you are probably going to have to work fulltime to afford living in the city.

If I were you I would try to go to a law school in Ny like NYU,Columbia, etc if you have the grades. Get into the A and R side of the business while developing contacts. Go to live shows, write for fanzines, hang out at record stores, work for free as an intern or doing street level promotion. A lot of major labels hire college aged kids as volunteer local marketing reps.
Believe me there are going to be thousands of people just like you in NY. You are going to set yourself apart with your education, in your case I think. People will be impressed with your drive....not the wildcards bit, though.
A friend of mine is recording a demo with a major label producer soon and he has worked his ass off for years to get to that point. Theres no free lunch.

good luck


47ronin
 
CyanJaguar said:
I decided that I finally have enough of what it takes to be in the industry and I am going to go for broke - next year when I graduate.

HEre is my plan. I think I have the three things one needs to succeed in music.

Marketing: I have a marketing degree, with a focus in selling.

Music : I know what listeners reward and can write them - WILDCARDS

Business: I'll have my MBA next year.



THE PLAN
What I want to do next year, as soon as I graduate, is take my savings (maybe $5k-6k ) and move to NYC for two months looking for a record deal or job with a big record label(BAD BOY, ARISTA)

The plan is to try to sell myself as
one: An artist who knows what the market wants, knows how to get it, and is not just looking for handouts.

IF that does not work,
two: A marketing person who knows how to find hit songs and has worked with enough artists to be able to get the talent together to make a hit offering.

I honestly want to walk into P.Diddy's office and be like," If you dont hire me, someone else will, and you'll regret it before two years are up"

What do you guys think? Any chance of this not succeeding?
IF it does not (I know it will succeed) then I'll start law school in the fall of next year.
Click to expand...

Can you post some of your material for me to hear? I'd appreciate a link.

Dingo :)
 
Marketing wise, you haven't really told me what your "wildcard" is that makes you stand out as a recording artist that can make my label a nice profit. In this ultra hi-speed pop music world we live in, you have to sell right out of the gate and that requires some kind of major hook(sorry, I can't get that word out of my head when I think of these things). Sure, your songs might be great, but so are a billion other songwriters' out there, and they aren't selling enough to support a labels needs. Matthew Sweet comes to mind immediately.

My suggestion would be to find out what your special, mass marketing hook is, before packing up and moving. Are you outrageously goodlooking(most pop stars)? Do you create off the wall hooks that sound like nothing on the radio, yet still grab the listener(ala Timbaland)?

Having a good head for business is probably considered a bad thing to most labels when checking out new talent. Who wants to sign an artist who knows up front how bad you are screwing them?

I would say for your plan to work you need to have considerable documented support from your home region. Showing up and knocking on doors is gonna be like buying a lottery ticket... but, if you show up with a huge fanbase already supporting you, if you are selling tons of cds out of the trunk of your car and have mad public support(ala Jay Z), then you can knock on doors. Otherwise, you are just one of a billion musicians with a dream.

Rather than worry about hooking up with pdiddy, why not create a mind blowing cd and start spreading the word in growing concentric circles from your home base. Hit every radio station and club that caters to your genre of music and hit them often with newer, deadlier mixes and songs and gain support the tried and true way.

I'm working with a band right now that has a development deal in place with Universal music all because of the strength of their live draw and 10,000 in cd sales from the shows. They did it by playing anywhere they could in PA, VA, MD, WV and NC. They built up a fan base by constantly playing and gaining fans with the music. It's hard work, but it's a more reliable use of time than just "getting discovered."
 
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