What are the best analog signal levels

N

nononsense!

New member
What is meant to be the best analog recording level for the best quality of a signal?
Which proof (like in court) can someone give that +4 dBu is the best recording level
and that it is meant to be average level (or peak level)? I know that VU meters
show the average levels, but does the recording signal have to be average?

I looks to me right now that the best recording level is +4 dBu seen as average level.
Most peaklevel meters on mixers like my Yamaha 24/14FX show +4 dBu when the
zero leds light up fully.
So I think the recording level is the best when the average level is so that when you
had a calculator and could calculate very fast that the zero leds are the average level.
But I don't know in how much time that average level has to be measured. Probably the
time that is to be measured is the whole recording.

'Theory'
Maybe it is possible that they agreed that +4 dBu should be 'average' instead of peaklevel because
60 years ago they used tape decks. But still they agreed average so that there would be less noise
heard from the tape and other equipment. They had less trouble with peaks because of tape and
tubes.
 
First of all, there *are* peak reading VU meters, and even among the dampened "average-reading" ones, there are variations in performance and in just what the 0VU level is set to.

0VU is not always necessarily calibrated to to +4dBm. Many tape decks calibrate 0VU to the magnetic field on the record head and not the amount of voltage flowing through the wires, settin the calibration based upon the rated saturation level for a particular formulation of reference tape. And of course, not everything runs at +4dBm. There are plenty of VU meters on devices running at -10dBu as well. And there's a lot of equipment out there where 0VU simply represents 100% modulation of a carrier signal. And so on.

Keep it simple. The common denominator in all these evices is that 0VU is calibrated to represent a "sweet spot" in the designed performance of the device. Some devices can tolerate wider swings below and above that 0VU reference point than others can, that's a matter of learning the personality of each device. One tape deck may take tape oversaturation better than another, one compressor may sound smoother running a few points below 0VU whereas another sounds really bitchin if run hot.

But the key is in the gain staging, in the chaining of the devices into a signal path. That's where the levels get important. You might want to run Compressor X hot during a particular song to really saturate those vintage tubes, but unless the tape deck or EQ or A/D converter that's downstream from the compressor has a preamp with a personality that likes hot signal levels (a rarity in many input stages, BTW), you'd better have the signal dialed back to line level for it's input.

Keeping the line level in the chain under control while still taking advantage of the personalities inside the boxes are really what those meters are all about and the key to it all being good in my book.

G.
 
Glen, FYI..that dude is walters.
SouthSIDE Glen said:
First of all, there *are* peak reading VU meters, and even among the dampened "average-reading" ones, there are variations in performance and in just what the 0VU level is set to.

0VU is not always necessarily calibrated to to +4dBm. Many tape decks calibrate 0VU to the magnetic field on the record head and not the amount of voltage flowing through the wires, settin the calibration based upon the rated saturation level for a particular formulation of reference tape. And of course, not everything runs at +4dBm. There are plenty of VU meters on devices running at -10dBu as well. And there's a lot of equipment out there where 0VU simply represents 100% modulation of a carrier signal. And so on.

Keep it simple. The common denominator in all these evices is that 0VU is calibrated to represent a "sweet spot" in the designed performance of the device. Some devices can tolerate wider swings below and above that 0VU reference point than others can, that's a matter of learning the personality of each device. One tape deck may take tape oversaturation better than another, one compressor may sound smoother running a few points below 0VU whereas another sounds really bitchin if run hot.

But the key is in the gain staging, in the chaining of the devices into a signal path. That's where the levels get important. You might want to run Compressor X hot during a particular song to really saturate those vintage tubes, but unless the tape deck or EQ or A/D converter that's downstream from the compressor has a preamp with a personality that likes hot signal levels (a rarity in many input stages, BTW), you'd better have the signal dialed back to line level for it's input.

Keeping the line level in the chain under control while still taking advantage of the personalities inside the boxes are really what those meters are all about and the key to it all being good in my book.

G.
Click to expand...
 
Here's something I learned recently:

Read the subject line. Note the poster and realize who he is after about the first sentence. Skip post entirely.

Go to first reply from known reputable source. Read. Absorb. Enjoy!

Hooray! I learned about analog recording levels, AND I was able to avoid reading Walters' post and wasting my time.

I feel like I actually learned something now.
 
The mixer I use is +4 dBu when the zero leds light up fully, it is a peakmeter.
Do I have to take that +4 dBu as peak or as average?

And if the answer is average, what do you feel is average?

Let's say you record on a weaker volume of -12 dBu. Does a weaker volume of -12 dBu
give a less accurate or less quality signal? I am not talking about noise.
Of course you don't hear any difference, but is there a difference technically, in the quality
of the electronics?
 
Last edited:
nononsense! said:
The mixer I use is +4 dBu when the zero leds light up fully, it is a peakmeter.
Do I have to take that +4 dBu as peak or as average?

And if the answer is average, what do you feel is average?

Let's say you record on a weaker volume of -12 dBu. Does a weaker volume of -12 dBu
give a less accurate or less quality signal? I am not talking about noise.
Of course you don't hear any difference, but is there a difference technically, in the quality
of the electronics?
Click to expand...
There are no follwup questions. Everything has already been answered.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen wrote: The common denominator in all these evices is that 0VU is calibrated to represent a "sweet spot" in the designed performance of the device.

Some devices can tolerate wider swings below and above that 0VU reference point than others can, that's a matter of learning the personality of each device.

One tape deck may take tape oversaturation better than another, one compressor may sound smoother running a few points below 0VU whereas another sounds really bitchin if run hot.
Click to expand...

Now that's sage advice if I've ever seen it ... easy to understand and absolutely true - saved to my "audio notes"

hey I wonder if modeled plugins like URS's classic console compressors work under the same premise, or do they just model the sweetest possible sound at all times ....
 
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