What are my options for mixing down?

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Shana

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Im using the Br8 and recording on a zip disk.. Digital sounds so good it would be a crying shame to mixdown to a cassette. The noise is unbearable. Anyone have ideas how i can mixdown to something else without BUYING anything more?? Or do I have to find someone with a BR8 as well and a cd burner? i have a computer. Its new and has these little speakers. How would i record onto a cd with it? (Without spending a ton of money??)
Please help
Thanx
 
You should be able to dump the files from the BR8 to your computer and then burn to CD drive. I think you may need the VS software from Roland if you do not already have it. You may want to check the Roland users forum here or www.vsplanet.com
 
We'd all like to get great results "without spending a ton of money"... but in the "real" world there's just no way around it.
Getting the best possible recordings comes from investing in better equipment and more experience. You'd better sit down and think about what you are trying to achieve, Shana.... then invest wisely.
 
Try using a HI Fi VCR, you probably already own one.

I use one, and get great results.

No tape hiss, no wow and flutter, takes a good hot signel, easy to operate.

I bought a panasonic, for around $150.00.

If you do decide to use one, make sure it has index search, this is a must!!
 
Welcome to the joy that is home recording. :)
I wish someone had the answer on how to improve without buying more stuff ... but I don't think it's possible, yet (check out The Black Hole of Recording .... everyone seems to be in the same boat).
To record CDs you either need a stand-alone player (Tascam CDRW5000 is good, but I think discontinued-?- ... others will recommend something from Philips, which would be more cost effective but could have some limitations that you should be aware of) or an internal CD burner for your computer. The problem with using an internal burner is your soundcard may not have very good D/A and A/D converters ... so that may be another upgrade down the line. You should be able to still mix through normal monitors hooked up to the BR8 while still mixing to your computer, though.
Mixing to HiFi VCR is certainly an option. But, my experience has been that unless you have a pretty hi-end unit with dedicated knobs for the input levels ... the VCR tends to overcompress what you put into it. There may be some brands that don't behave this way, so I'm not ruling out the possibility of getting good results with a VCR.
If you want to stay digital all the way through mixdown, I'm sorry to say that you'll most likely need to buy something new.
A standalone CD recorder goes for approx $200-700 or so (depending on brand and features). While you could probably get an internal CD recorder for $200-250 and a good soundcard with s/pdif inputs for around $300-350.
As I said, welcome to home recording! Your wallet will never be the same! :)

Good Luck.
 
ok i see some great ideas here. I know im gonna end up getting a cd burner in hte long run but until i do.... 1)As for vcr recording i still dont understand exactly. What am I recording ONTO? 2) So technically speaking I CAN record thru my computer? Am I supposed to know how? I'm sorry to make all you crazy but im leaving to camp this summer and i wanna take copies of the songs ive been working so hard on with me and i spent all my money for now on equipment and guitars,,,Thanx again :)
 
1. You'd actually record onto a videocassette. Still analog ... but a little better fidelity due to the tape width. You would just record the audio portion of the tape and leave the video portion blank. You can do this only if the VCR has separate audio and video inputs (eg. if your VCR only has a cable input, it won't work).

2. Yep, you can record directly to your PC. The first step is determining if your current soundcard has a line input jack (usually a 1/8" stereo mini on consumer cards). Next, you need a specialty cable that will connect the outputs from the BR8 (I assume they're RCA, but check that out) to the 1/8 mini stereo plug. Go to Radio Shack, they should have what you need. After that, you need some kind of software that will let you record from the line input on your soundcard. You may even already have some software that will do this if it was bundled with your soundcard. If not, there's plenty of freeware out on the internet. Another option is using software that can record directly to .mp3 format from your line input. That way you can avoid using large amounts of disk space for .wav files. MusicMatch can do this, but I think you need to get the full version for about $30. Sound Forge XP is another option at about $50. I prefer Sound Forge because it also gives you the ability to edit your recording on the computer.
Remember that even though you're recording to your PC that you're not really staying in the digital realm. It's better than tape in the fact that there's no moving parts, but it's still not CD quality. Close though. To do that, you need a soundcard that has a digital input that you connect to the digital out on the BR8 (not even sure if it has one).
Don't worry if you only have a 'cheap' soundcard, though. I have a $30 card and it works well enough for what I want it to do. You need to have the line input, though.
Anyway, hope that helps you ... good luck!

[This message has been edited by BigKahuna (edited 05-17-2000).]
 
All good information. I have used a stereo Hi-Fi JVC VCR for about a few years now to record "live" when my band practices in my studio. You get 2 hours of good sound on cheap media, no worrying about pausing between songs - just let it roll. One thing I would add: as already mentioned, when recording on top of old material you want to let it run about 6 seconds before starting. This is a limitation in the design of the VHS tape heads/transport. You can avoid this limitation if your VCR has what is called a "flying erase head". This is also a must if you dabble in video production, since it allows you record a piece of video seemlessly on top of another. Until recently you only found this on expensive units (i.e. S-VHS desks). But in the last few months I have seen some new units (including S-VHS desks) equipped with them for about $200.
 
Hi-Fi VCR is good but if you want to take those songs with you to camp, you'd have to dump them to casette anyways... :(

-jhe
 
I think James is on the right track here. I don’t know why the noise would be unbearable or why any noise would even be present if you’re doing it right. A good quality cassette deck like an NAD or a NACH along with a metal cassette recorded with Dolby S or C should sound terrific if your levels are correct and you’ve kept the deck in good working order. At 0 VU and –20 db, using Dolby C or S should give you a S/N ratio somewhere between 70 and 75%. That’s great! Hardly anybody could notice any improvement above 75%. By the way, if you buy a good consumer level soundcard like a SoundBlaster Live, the signal to noise ratio is about the same. If you mix down through your soundcard to make a wav file and then burn a CD from it, the noise will be pretty much the same as whatever you had on your cassette deck. This is assuming you used a good cassette deck to start with. I think you probably need to work on your mixing technique. This is just one of those things that comes with time and experience. We all started out making “bad” cassette mixes. The good news is…you’ll get better!
 
Windoman, youre the first to comment about the taperecorder itself. I assumed all tape recorders are created equal. I guess not. Can u recommend a good tape recorder i should use? I hooked up with someone who has a cd burner and he's gonna burn a cd for me but i'd still like to be able to mixdown to cassette as well. What is a metal cassette? Thanx, you are all lifesavers :)
 
Hi Shana!

First, lets talk about the deck you already have; it may serve you well enough for now, if it’s just a matter of making copies of your work, and not some big recording enterprise. You asked me about metal tape; cassette decks have a knob or button on them that will change your BIAS. The bias tells the recorder what type of tape you’re using and will adjust it’s internal settings accordingly. It should give you 3 options: normal, chrome, and metal. If your deck does not have these options, then yes, you will most certainly need a better deck. I’ve not been out shopping for a deck in years, and this is mostly due to buying a good one years ago, that’s held up well. Mine is an NAD, and I’ve always been very happy with it. I can make dubs from CD’s that sound so close to the original, that I would challenge anyone to tell the difference. Metal tape by the way is just a type of tape formulation, just like chrome or normal. Browse through the blank tape section the next time you’re at the music store and see what different kinds you can spot. I’ve always been real partial to Sony for metal and normal bias, and TDK for chrome. If you want to make tapes for other people to hear on their own little walkmans and that type of thing, then you should make their copies from normal bias tapes recorded with Dolby B. Most of these cheap walkman as well as car decks don’t have a very good frequency response, especially in the high end, so if they play back a tape that’s been encoded with Dolby B, and leave the noise reduction OFF, they’ll get a boost in the high end that can be helpful. On the other hand, if they play the tape back on a good home cassette deck, then they will probably want to engage the Dolby B, so that they’ll hear less tape hiss. Stay away from Dolby C and S when making tapes for other people to hear, because if they play them back on cheap units without the noise reduction turned on, the tape will sound awful.

If you’re making actual two-track mixdowns on tape for yourself and want a good one from which to dub copies for others, then you should of course make the best sounding tape possible, and this will entail using metal tape and engaging Dolby C or S. Make sure you have a good hot level on the tape deck; recorded slightly above O VU on average, and only clipping the highest range on the meters occasionally.

Since you have a computer, you might want to simply run a line out of your multi-track machine into the line input of your computers soundcard, and burning wav files. After you get things sounding the way you want, you could then run a line out of the soundcard into your cassette deck for making copies. Recording on computer takes a bit of know-how though, along with some special software and at least a SoundBlaster Live card. The SB card is about a hundred bucks, and some software for recording comes with it, but you’ll want to use some better software eventually for editing purposes. I would recommend downloading Cool Edit for that. It’s 70 dollars and well worth it.

By the way, you might also look at DAT stand alone decks for mixing down to. I’ve seen them as cheap as 300 or so, and they sound great and would sure make the job easier for you. You could always dub cassette tapes from the DAT’s.

Lot’s-o-luck
 
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