What am I doing wrong here? Please...

  • Thread starter Thread starter shawn gibson
  • Start date Start date
S

shawn gibson

New member
I'm trying really hard to get some music down...

I'm using the Edirol Orchestral now, and have started a tune with it.

The first run through, all of the high melody lines play fine, but then it fizzles out and they become inaudible as it keeps playing.

Can you have a listen, please:


And here's a screenshot of Sonar: http://members.rogers.com/sgphoto/new2.jpg

Midi is a killin me. Geesh.

Have I set it up all wrong? :(:(:(

Thanks guys,
Shawn:)
 
Looks like you're over the maximum polyphony limit.

In Edirol DXi Property, click on Setup buton (right hand side, bottom), and raise the Maximum Polyphony (default=64) to about 128 or more.

Hope this help.
;)
Jaymz
 
Listen to it again...

Good work anyway...
Soon, you're gonna beat me in Orchestra World of Cakewalk, Shawn... :D

Gotta prepare my Green Submarine this time... :D

Tough enemy approaching...

Ping... one time only...

FIRE !!!

:D :D :D
Jaymz
 
:) Actually, it was one of your tunes that inspired me to try combining the orchestra stuff with the heavier stuff I like (I listened again earlier today:)).

I don't know if Carl Orff (sp?) and old Metallica can ever be friends, but I'll sure try:)


OK, so...the Orchestral has 16 channels, plus what I guess are 4 midi channels, hence the 64 default you speak of? I'll have to get more involved in the Edirol panel I think. I know with FLoops, it was simple, just add one Orchestral channel, and add as many midi out channels, and make sure the port was the same in Edirol and midi out channel. But the Sonar wrapper doesn't include the midi channel, so I'll take a gander for it.

I've definitely exceeded channels or something, because in exporting to RIFF, some of the channels aren't even showing up. But that's probably a different kettle of fish knowing my blissful ignorance still LOL.

Shawn:)
 
OK, so...the Orchestral has 16 channels, plus what I guess are 4 midi channels, hence the 64 default you speak of?
Click to expand...

Polyphony and channels are not the same thing. A MIDI synth typically responds to 16 MIDI channels, and depending upon its polyphony, it can play some number of tones simultaneously. If the polyphony is 64, then there are sixty-four notes that can be playing at any given instant, parcelled out amongst the sixteen channels.
 
Ahhh...that makes sense. So polyphony (I've heard the term before, not quite understood it though) is how many notes can be played once (so, if it's a 3 note polyphonic keyboard, I can play a triad); but the midi channels (i.e., 16 of them) are like the channels on a mixer, they just happen to be where whatever 'channel' from the keyboard is being routed to...I think. And if you have a keyboard that has 3 notes polyphony, that can take up say midi channel 1, 2 and 3 (but not just channel 1, because it's 3 notes). Uh, it's starting to hurt LOL.

Right?

Shawn:)
 
Close...

MIDI channels are not quite like channels on a mixer... your MIDI synth can play sixteen different patches (sound sets, for example, piano, or flute, or mystery meat), one per channel, at any given moment. The MIDI channel numbers are what keeps them distinct. Channels on a mixer are separae audio signals, whereas MIDI channels all go through the same cable and merely identify a MIDI message with one of sixteen possible different instruments it might be triggering. In other words, the MIDI synth reads the messages, and if a piano sound is assigned to channel 1, it will play notes tagged as channel 1, and ignore all the others... and on another channel, say 4, there's a bass sound assigned to it, and the synth responds to messages tagged as channel 4 by playing the notes with the bass sound...

If you have three notes of polyphony, you can have all three notes on any particular channel, or one note each on three channels, or any other possible permutation.
 
OK. This is what I did:
Edirol Orchestral has 16 channels.

Channel 1 can be: any of the instruments
Channel 2 can be: any of the instruments
Channel 3 can be: any of the instruments
Channel 4 can be: any of the instruments
Channel 5 can be: any of the instruments
etc...to Channel 16.

And Edirol Orchestral has 4 outputs (they show up as mixing channels with meters in the track/console views)
.
So I put Channels 1-4 on Output 1, 5-8 on Output 2, 9-12 on Output 3, 13-16 on Output 4.

So I now have any combination of UP TO A TOTAL OF 16 instruments at my disposal, correct? I also jacked the polyphone up to 128 in the Orchestral screen.

So, if I want say a possible total of 4 bass-type instruments, I'll make Channels 1 to 4 do all bass-type instruments, and for say violins go to channels 5-8, pan them, add a couple of effects differently, and put drums &perc type instruments 9-12, and whatever else 13-16.

Now here's a problem, that would mean I'm using 16 channels, but I want at least a rock bass and a synthesizer in the mix, so to do that, do I just make sure at least 2 of the 16 channels are NOT used by Edirol Orchestral, and make sure my bass/synthesizer channels are routed to those 2 empty channels?

Does that mean I'm gonna get all my sounds? Seems to be working so far, but it's also a little thin sounding on some of the instruments (like they might not be playing), so I might still be missing something.

They should all be set to MIDI Omni, as well, right? Or should it be to "None"?

Sorry for asking such specific questions, I have the books, you guys have told me the theory, but the theory isn't getting into my head.


Shawn:)
 




OK, I'm 'a getting somewhere, got an intro mapped out for what I guess is gonna be a heavy medul song LOL.

it's an expansion on what's above there. Now all I have to do is write a nice heavy guitar song to start playing after the intro:)

It's hard to combine an orchestra and an electric guitar...any tips? I can't get it to sound good with any more than 1 overdriven note on the guitar (big fat E woo hoo), just too many harmonics or something in competition. But anyways, the rest of the song will hopefully just be guitar/bass/drums/keys...maybe a bridge that alludes back to this intro, and a similar ending.

Wonder how late the the pizza place is open tonight???

Shawn

Here's what I got done, thanks to you guys, even thought it's raw, it at least seems to making soume sound LOL.
 
Thats better, Shawn... Keep going. And FYI, usualy, people make the Drums, Bass, Guitar tracks first, and add orchestration latter as a companiment... Not an absolut rule, but I heard it usualy goes that way...

;)
Jaymz
 
Ya, that makes sense. Maybe that's why it's just not magic to me. Though I did start it off by playing with an E-5-b5 to C-5-b5 thing on guitar:)

I keep feeling like I'm wrestling with it, but I put that up to my Midiocy:(

O well, these are just experimental times:) Not expecting any awards for a while LOL:)

I think what I really need to do is get cracking on some of the broken hearted crap I should be able to write after just getting out a seven years of crazy love. That should make a difference, cuz then I'm not wrestling with music or computers, just wrestling with my wanker heart. Ahhh...

:)

ps cool new logo Man!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top