What A Bout No Comp At Mastering Stage?

J

jaynm26

New member
Ok, some exp guys pro & non please weigh in here. OK im working on some projects here in the studio and (really goofing around) the compressor (dramwer) that will (the head eng here) setup was inactive just passing audio with a little gain and it sounded great! Most mastering comp really aren't doing "that much" when set right? (besides of harmonic content and what not) I mean the actual overall level? My question, would it hurt just not to have a compressor in the mastering chain at all? to help conserve dynamic range and just limit the audio. Am I crazy? wrong? a bloke? please tell me? I mean im trying my best to converse dynamic range and actually have a crest-factor while still being loud and commercially competitive.

Im just thinking out loud here if the goal is to persevere dynamic range and not to "crush' the audio the limiter is going to crush the audio some what anyway right? So a compressor in the mixing stage nor the mastering can compress that much right? or there will be no room at the mastering stage for dynamic range at limiting time. So once in the mastering stage the master comp setting are gentle in most cases and are set to be transparent (and Im not talking dubstep music that wants to pump your brains out) I mean most transparent settings are, fast to medium release, slow to medium attack, low ratios with low gain reduction. Even at these low & gentle settings you are loosing a hint of dynamic range correct? So would it hurt to just take it out?

What do most of yall try to accomplish with your compressor at the mastering stage? (I know thats a broad question just think of scenarios where you use small amounts of compression) If its an idiotic thing to think of, of no comp at the mastering stage just tell me just experimenting over here thas all. Anyway After that I tested both on Analog and digital and...(do I really have to give the spec's lol better now than later lol)

Analog Setup & Routing @ Wilson Art Mastering Studio

Monitoring - Dunlavy sv-c
Amp - Classe
Room - standard mastering room, great
Converters - Benchmark DAC1

Outboard gear (i was using at the time)
EQ - A Designs EM-EQ2
EQ - Bax EQ
Comp - Dramer S2, settings lets just say fast release, slow-medium attack, ratio 1:5 and about -3dB of gain reduction.
Out thru converts to DAW (here they use Wave Lab)

Digital, I tried same master (I know the plugins are different just bar with me the focus is dynamic range and overall level)

EQ - Pro Q
EQ - UAD Massive Passive
Comp - UAD fairchilld, time constant 1, gain reduction same -3
Limiter - Massey L2007

Again the settings of the fairchild were mild. I know its standard to use comp during mastering but what if you don't? ANy you guys exp or try this? Thoughts, comments please?
 
If you don't use a compressor, your really not making your mix any louder. If your not using a compressor, that means your also not using a limiter since it's basically a compressor.
 
AscendRecording said:
If you don't use a compressor, your really not making your mix any louder.
Click to expand...
You don't need a compressor to make a mix louder. A compressor makes loud things quieter. Keeping in mind that "loud" does not equal "mastering" -- It's only a small part of the process as a whole.
If your not using a compressor, that means your also not using a limiter since it's basically a compressor.
Click to expand...
Meh, compressor, limiter, brick-wall 'clipper', straight clip & reduction - Again, there are an awful lot of ways to skin that particular cat...
 
A Compressor is used to increase the apparent volume of the lower signals. It does that by compressing the signal above the threshold, which creates more headroom. So by pushing the "makeup gain" up a bit, your bringing the higher level peaks back to their original apparent volume, the result of that is an increase in the volume of the lower level signals. I do understand what you are saying but in the end, compressors and limiters really are important for mastering. IMO I try to do very little in the mastering stage in terms of EQ. If there's anything I need to fix or clean up, I do it in the mixing stage. Now in terms of volume, I leave that to the mastering stage which is where compressors and limiters come into play.
 
I don't like it when Newbies to the site attempt to inform the people who have been here a while.

Everybody in this thread knows what a compressor does, though some more than others I suppose.

I was interested in Massive answering the original question, though. I don't know too much about the process of mastering.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
I don't like it when Newbies to the site attempt to inform the people who have been here a while.

Everybody in this thread knows what a compressor does, though some more than others I suppose.

I was interested in Massive answering the original question, though. I don't know too much about the process of mastering.
Click to expand...

I agree but the bad thing is when newbs come in we "really" dont know how knowledgable they are. I mean im sure when you guys came in and had that tag "newb" people prolly look at yall as real newbs when you weren't you had tons of knowledge and experience . That tag can really make you look bad when you first come in. Not taking anything away from what your saying Crow when your new you should walk little more carefully in respect to the vets....But on the other hand its hard to respect a vet and their post if you can clearly see they guy is a bloke and just been their along time chiming in with terrible advice and wrong answers (not in anyway with the case of Massive that guy has some great knowledge) but kinda get what im saying just weird how forums work.
My advice just not speaking is a win, win for both lol.
 
CrowsofFritz;4003873 I was interested in Massive answering the original question, though. I don't know too much about the process of mastering.
Click to expand...

As do I the question was more target towards massive, waltz, gonzo the guys who do master...(Gotta be careful who direct questions to round here start filtering the more "knowledgeable" guys here and you quick to get crucified :spank:...I would know.)

Anyway..yeah whats yall guys answer never did get an answer from you Massive or the other guys im quite curios...Promise it will be the last post bout compression. I really do appreciate you guys tho for your answer Im putting them to work.
 
Last edited:
jaynm26 said:
I agree but the bad thing is when newbs come in we "really" dont know how knowledgable they are. I mean im sure when you guys came in and had that tag "newb" people prolly look at yall as real newbs when you weren't you had tons of knowledge and experience . That tag can really make you look bad when you first come in. Not taking anything away from what your saying Crow when your new you should walk little more carefully in respect to the vets....But on the other hand its hard to respect a vet and their post if you can clearly see they guy is a bloke and just been their along time chiming in with terrible advice and wrong answers (not in anyway with the case of Massive that guy has some great knowledge) but kinda get what im saying just weird how forums work.
My advice just not speaking is a win, win for both lol.
Click to expand...

I mean, I never really look at them as newbies to knowledge, just newbies to the site. When a guy asks me what compression is, then I will know that he is a newbie to both the site and knowledge about audio. From what I can see, AscendRecording knows what compression is, so I would imagine he has some knowledge of audio. He has no idea about who the forum members are and he was explaining what compression is to Massive! :wtf:
 
AscendRecording Massive Mastering is short for Massive Knowledge I mean Im no dummy but when Massive is saying something I tend to listen MORE than argue. 2 ears one mouth ;)
 
AscendRecording said:
A Compressor is used to increase the apparent volume of the lower signals.
Click to expand...
Again - and I'm not trying to sidetrack what the "end game" might be, but a compressor REDUCES the apparent volume of the HIGHER signals (therefore decreasing the dynamic range and crest factor, etc.).
It does that by compressing the signal above the threshold, which creates more headroom.
Click to expand...
It doesn't create more headroom - It reduces it. It's compressing the dynamic range of the original signal. Yes, it allows you to turn that quieter signal up -- But that's not exactly "headroom" --
So by pushing the "makeup gain" up a bit, your bringing the higher level peaks back to their original apparent volume, the result of that is an increase in the volume of the lower level signals.
Click to expand...
Yes. But that has nothing at all to do with the process of compression.
I do understand what you are saying but in the end, compressors and limiters really are important for mastering. IMO I try to do very little in the mastering stage in terms of EQ. If there's anything I need to fix or clean up, I do it in the mixing stage. Now in terms of volume, I leave that to the mastering stage which is where compressors and limiters come into play.
Click to expand...
And that's all good and fine -- And I know that compressors and limiters can be important during the mastering phase.
 
jaynm26 said:
. Even at these low & gentle settings you are loosing a hint of dynamic range correct? So would it hurt to just take it out?

What do most of yall try to accomplish with your compressor at the mastering stage? <> I know its standard to use comp during mastering but what if you don't? ANy you guys exp or try this? Thoughts, comments please?
Click to expand...
I don't always use compression or have the compressor in the chain when mastering, but for a large percentage of the projects I do.

It really depends how the track sounds. There's are mixers that I get stuff from that are very good with bringing the final sound to where it barely needs mastering at all. A couple of these guys use judicious amounts of compression on the 2 buss. It sounds like a record and might just need a hair of eq tilt and a hair of leveling with the other tracks. Adding compression wouldn't improve things.

I do like the sound of certain comps and use them sparingly when needed.

These days things tend to get over compressed if you think about it.
Tracking compression
Mixing compression
Mastering compression
Radio compression

Oye....
 
Thx Waltz preciate it, so I'm not crazy then right walt? It can make perfect sense some times then. Ok I got another question what bout 2 compressor (not that I could fathom why?) but what bout the people who uses 2 comp one for the heavy lifting and another for the peaks/transients or light lifting. Whats your philosophy and methods thos of you who use 2 comp?
 
Last edited:
Waltz Mastering said:
These days things tend to get over compressed if you think about it.
Tracking compression
Mixing compression
Mastering compression
Radio compression

Oye....
Click to expand...

Radio compression for sure. Man....

I think much of it has to do with two things.

1: The people recording the shows are too lazy to go back and work everything out.

2: Even if the people were to work everything out, every show would have a completely different volume. No station that I have been to sets standards for the shows that get sent in or recorded there.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
I don't like it when Newbies to the site attempt to inform the people who have been here a while.
Click to expand...

So because the forum categorizes me as a "newbie", you assume I don't know what i'm talking about? I have plenty years of experience, I don't claim to know everything but that comment was a bit unnecessary don't you think? ;)

Also @ Massive, I wasn't "arguing" or trying to explain to you what a compressor does haha I was simply expanding my previous post. :)
 
Last edited:
jaynm26 said:
I got another question what bout 2 compressor (not that I could fathom why?) but what bout the people who uses 2 comp one for the heavy lifting and another for the peaks/transients or light lifting. Whats your philosophy and methods thos of you who use 2 comp?
Click to expand...
I know a couple mastering guys who use a couple comps at once through series (one patched into the other) or parallel (one blended into the other on 2 separate channels)

I think it can be a little heavy handed or over the top or would imagine the music would have to have a lot of space to begin with or maybe they aren't pushing them that hard at all, ...but for me the brickwall limiting is in essence an aggressive compression so you adding 2 more on top... that's 3 compressor actions which seems like a lot. I think for maybe some rare situations that might work to solve some problems, but couldn't see it being used a extensively.
 
AscendRecording said:
So because the forum categorizes me as a "newbie", you assume I don't know what i'm talking about? I have plenty years of experience, I don't claim to know everything but that comment was a bit unnecessary don't you think? ;)

Also @ Massive, I wasn't "arguing" or trying to explain to you what a compressor does haha I was simply expanding my previous post. :)
Click to expand...

Nope, absolutely not. I even said this and emphasized it. You need to go back and re-read that post.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
Nope, absolutely not. I even said this and emphasized it. You need to go back and re-read that post.
Click to expand...

Me also, I stated that the "newb" tag can be very easily misconstrued as it doe snot show true knowledge level...but if I could say so, very politely Ascend, Massive is the LAST person on this planet and into eons of time who needs an explanation of what a compressor is trust me. lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top