Weird Recording Tone from Super Champ

[stratman17]

I am experimenting with my son in getting good guitar sounds while recording. We are using a 1972 Fender Super Champ (all tube, single 10" Eminance Rajin Cajun speaker.) He is playing a Gibson SG standard. He is using a distorted lead, with a Angus Young style of playing and tone. We have tried 2 different kinds of mics located in different places in the room. (Audio Technica 4033 and an SM57) The tone from the amp is really good but when recording we are losing the warmth of the tube sound, crispness in highs and our overall sound seems very digital, boxy or honky. We are recording to a digital recorder. The sound is definately not true to what we are hearing from the amp. Can anybody give us further ideas? Do we need some sort of tube preamp? Keep in mind that this is a fender super champ, the distorted channel is not too distored at all and we have that on 3-4 ( not much at all ), but when we are recording it sounds like we're getting a very metalish tone instead of a good old rocknroll tone, which is what ( I, as in the son ), am hearing when practicing and rocking out. If anybody has any ideas we greatly appreciate them! thanks!

 

[Topcat53]

Your post said you have tried the mic's at different places in the room - have you tried close miking? Put the SM57 right up against the grill cloth, but off axis of the centerline of the speaker & up a little, like about 2 o'clock. Try recording that alone first. If you think you need a little room sound start by placing the other mic out front about 6-10 ft away and mix a little of that sound in with the SM57. You can then experiment with different positions for the room mic - even behind the amp works better sometimes.

 

[stratman17]

Your post said you have tried the mic's at different places in the room - have you tried close miking? Put the SM57 right up against the grill cloth, but off axis of the centerline of the speaker & up a little, like about 2 o'clock. Try recording that alone first. If you think you need a little room sound start by placing the other mic out front about 6-10 ft away and mix a little of that sound in with the SM57. You can then experiment with different positions for the room mic - even behind the amp works better sometimes.

Thanks TopCat.... We did try close micing but I'm not sure we were that far off center. We'll try again and we'llalso try rear micing. We have not tried that.

Thanks!

 

[elenore19]

I also feel that you should try those micing techniques mentioned already. Also are you looking for a nice warm tone like for chords? or for soloing? If for chords, layering always helps that same problem out for me. Just a thought.

 

[Topcat53]

You might also want to check out the posts in the General Discussion Forum on Recording if you haven't already - lot's of good info there. There is, of course, the possibility of it being an issue with the recorder itself, your EQ settings, or the equiipment you are playing back through.

 

[mrface2112]

We are using a 1972 Fender Super Champ

Ummmmmmmm..........they didn't make the Super Champ in 1972. maybe you mean '82.

The tone from the amp is really good but when recording we are losing the warmth of the tube sound, crispness in highs and our overall sound seems very digital, boxy or honky. We are recording to a digital recorder. The sound is definately not true to what we are hearing from the amp.

Then something is lying to you. It's either the recorder or your ears.....it's usually your ears. mics don't lie--they record what things really sound like. so if you're hearing a boxy, honky recorded sound, i would wager the amp sounds a lot more boxy than your ears are leading you to believe.

Can anybody give us further ideas?

you say the amp sounds good to your ears........have you tried putting the mic where your ears are when it sounds good? stick the 4033 where your head is and see if it still sounds good.

that said, an sm57 always sounds boxy to me. definitely NOT my first choice when recording an amp. give me a sennheiser md421 any day.

if you haven't already, get the amp up off the floor. put it on a chair, barstool, something. amps on the floor mean you're getting a lot of nasty reflections from the floor itself--not a good thing.

and that said, what's your recording room like? have you acoustically treated the room at all? if you're recording in a drywall encrusted room (or concrete walled basement) with no acoustic treatment, your recordings will sound like it.


cheers,
wade

 

[CoolCat]

Interesting input on the room and getting it off the floor.

Ethan Winer has some great short mpegs about comb filtering and modals, one discusses placing the speakers close to a wall or further away...great free stuff to watch

http://www.realtraps.com/videos.htm

 

[kojdogg]

is your digital recorder 16 bit or 24 bit? if the latter, is it set to 24 bit? it can make a difference for headroom. if it's set to 16 bit, or only does 16 bit, try turning the gain on the preamp down a bit. the extra harshness you're hearing in the recorded track may be either preamp distortion or converter distortion.

the acoustics of the room could definitely make a difference. can you put the amp on a chair or something to decouple it from the floor a little bit, and can you do anything to minimize reflections in the room (e.g. make a little fort around the mic with some blankets, pillows and mic stands or something)? neither of these things are replacements for a good acoustic space (treated or untreated), but they can help a little bit. the 57 should be less sensitive and may be a better choice to start with if the acoustics of your room is bad.

 

[D28Flatpickr]

OK nice warm overdriven tubes sound like metal when you playback the recording.....Is your gain set too high on the mike input? I know silly question, but make sure you not in the red on your signal meter at any time during recording.

Also try eliminating the room from the equation. your room may have too many reflections that are making the recorded sound muddy. Put the amp in a clothes closet and keep the clothes in there and mike the amp where the center dust cap of the speaker meets the cone and back off the volume just a bit on the amp. Use the bridge pick-up for a brighter tone

if this a silver faced fender with the push pull bright/volume knob try it both ways ass well. Sometimes the knob out is harsh and treble sounding

If you find out it was a too much gain problem, bring the amp back out and close mike at the speaker and point a second mike out into the room maybe a corner and blend the two tracks to taste.

Also keep the back of the amp away from walls and put it on a chair to reduce bassey reflections