Wavy video problem

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Installed a new video card: ATI Radeon VE for dual monitor support. Just trying to get it to work with one for now. The screen looks wavy, like a gently shaking box of water. I can make several adjustments in the software but can't make it any better. One thing I can't adjust is the refresh rate. It's at 60hz. I think maybe my old 15" monitor doesn't allow it to be adjustable. Any ideas of the cause/solution? Sync? Drivers? Refresh rate?
 
This could also be caused by interference by your other monitor. Is it on? If it is, turn it off. If it isn't, turn it on. (There's a chance that the two monitors weirded eachother out. I had an old TV once and accidentally left a magnet on it....but it worked fine until I tried to take the magnet off, which totally screwed up the picture. I had to leave that magnet on the TV for the rest of its existence :) But I digress...)

If your second montor isn't the problem, then it's the refresh rate ...you need to find a way to adjust it. If you have your monitor setup as "Standard VGA" or something, perhaps this is keeping you from making the adjustment. If you don't make an adjustment, you will a) be sick to your stomach and b) ruin your monitor. Try to find "drivers" for you monitor on the web.

Might I suggest a new 17" monitor for under $150? They're cheap now dude.

Finally, in rare situations I've seen new video cards simply not jive with old monitors for whatever reason. No amount of adjusting would get them to work together. Pretty rare, but I have seen it.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I just went out and bought a new 19" Magview. Still same problem. And BTW, I have only this one hooked up (didn't even have two before).

I went under Settings/Display/Advanced/monitor and changed from "default monitor" to "Proview Technology INC. " for the manufacturer, and for model, I chose the highest model listed- mine's not listed, I guess cuz it hadn't been made yet when these were installed in 98 se. I could then adjust the refresh rate. I was allowed to choose from several rates ranging from 56 to 85. Above 60 it doesn't really wave but vibrates pretty quickly like it's about to blow.

I checked the proview site and the only driver downloads were for two models I didn't recognize. Should I go ahead and use the most recent one listed even though it doesn't exactly match my model #? What about those "driver-forum.com" sites? Are they to be trusted?
 
Your not under fluorescent lighting are you? that can do some strange things.

I think proview is made by ADI. If you switched monitors, why are you using the proview driver?

Mag is probably Maginovision. But, plain old 'plug and play' monitor should work, so I suspect your problem is somewhere else. Perhaps the video card.
 
I definitely have the right drivers now. Found 'em on the proview sight and it lists my monitor model # and name in the "Add New Hardware" wizard. Still doesn't work though!

Curiously, in the device manager under the monitor driver tab, it correctly names the monitor, provider, and date(11/00- fairly recent, eh?) but under this it says something like: "no driver needed or found for this device". But then when I click update driver and browse to the downloaded file, it says it's already been installed. The already installed part makes sense- I had already installed it.

I've tried several refresh rates, this time at 1024X768 and still no good. Some of the rates actually warp the picture quite a bit and I tried using the extensive adjustments on the monitor knob controlled on-screen-display. I succeeded in correcting the picture goemetry and size but not the shakes.
 
Yeah you should be using Mag drivers. Monitor drivers don't really "do" anything but give the operating system some basic paramenters about the monitor (available display modes, etc), hence the "no driver needed" message.

I agree with Emeric. If you hooked up a brand new monitor and you're getting the same results, then you should exchange the video card. First try your old video card again just to be sure.

How about listing some basic system specs? You're not overclocking are you?

Just to add another thought...some monitors have Moire correction which "unfocuses" the monitor...often giving it a slight shake. This won't be violent however...just enough to make you barf.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Abit BE6II
PIII 800EB
256 133 RAM

Yeah, I am overclocking, at least the front side bus anyway(800eb runs standard at 133- we've had this discussion in another thread). I know this means the AGP is amped up as well, I've run with no problems until now. That is if you don't count the Voodoo 3000 that went bad a couple a weeks ago after a little less than a year! Now it all seems so clear... I didn't think about it.

Can the overclocking make it not work right in the first place? I guess I figured it would either just shorter the life of the card but work fine otherwise, or not work at all. I didn't think it would cause symptoms like this.

If I can't find a dual display card that handles the overclocking, I'll just go back to the Geforce which was working fine, albeit with just one monitor.
 
Yeah it could very well be the overclocking. Try setting it back to 100Mhz and see what happens. If your problems disappear, you'll need a different card.

You might consider just running two video cards. This can be a bit trickier but it's how I'm doing it. Older cards are great because they won't require an IRQ (e.g. non-3d accelerated cards).

Slackmaster 2000
 
Can't go to 100 FSB or my 800 eb would basically become a 600! I'd rather just run a single 19" monitor.

Your extra card solution sounds good though. Can you elaborate on some of the details or point to the thread if you've discussed it before? I can't seem to find anything with the "search" anymore.


For those interested, I found an interesting article at Tom's Hardware about overclocked video cards:
www.tomshardware.com/graphic/00q1/000321/agp-overclock-03.html
Among other things, it shows little to no difference in temperatures at 100 and 133 mhz FSB. It does conclude, however, by saying that this still is not clear evidence to show there is no long term harm in overclocking the AGP slot.
 
I just meant for you to go down to 100Mhz to see if your video card problem disappears...if so, you'll need a more stable card. Otherwise, you'll probably want to send the ATI back for a replacement.

Running dual cards is an option. What OS are you using? I've only done it with Windows 2000, which supports dual monitors right out of the box. I believe that Win98 SE and WinME both support it as well. If so, you should be able to plug another card in and it should work without too much trouble. Of course you'll have your standard resource pitfalls that you'll have to work around. Right now I've got an AGP TNT2 and an old PCI S3 Trio working together without a hitch. The nice thing about the S3 card is that it requires no IRQ, making it very easy to stick into my system without conflict.

How loaded is your system currently? My BE6 is maxed out at 4 PCI cards and 1 AGP...and it took me a bit but I finally got a stable configuration.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I've got a modem in slot 2, a 1010 in slot 4, and video card in AGP.

Slot 1 shares IRQ w/ AGP
Slot 2 shares IRQ w/ slot 5
Slot 3 shares IRQ w/ HPT366 IDE controller

Where would a PCI video card work best on my board?

Do no PCI video cards use IRQ or just certain ones like the one you have?

BTW, I took the first Radeon VE back and they gave me another- same problem. So, I'm pretty confident it wasn't just a faulty card. The store is being really cool about helping me out. They seem almost as interested in this as I am.
 
If that's the case, then the problem is probably overclocking. I really wish you'd take the FSB down to 100Mhz just so we can see what happens. If the nastiness goes away, then I'll certainly avoid that card since I overclock too...and many others would be interested I'm sure.

If you can find a PCI video card that doesn't require an IRQ, I'd try it in Slot 5. There shouldn't be any conflict at all regardless, but it just *feels* better to have it in a slot that shares with the modem, as opposed to the highpoint controller. Otherwise slot 3 would work just as well.

I can't really recommend any old PCI cards because we are talking about aging hardware. Look for stuff with 4MB or less memory and then check websites to determine what kind of resources it'll need. If it doesn't require an IRQ then it might work fine. I guess. :) Like I said I'm using an S3 card...but I know they don't agree with some modern motherboards, especially ASUS...it's kind of a try until you find something....but at least we're talking about $10 cards. The computer store might be able to help you out here if they have old junk laying around.

Slackmaster 2000
 
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I'll take it down to 100 if you tell me how! I know it's in the BIOS and I've made some minor tweaks there before. But, the initial setup was done by a guy at the store. I'm not confident going in there and "figuring it out."

There is also an article at Tom's Hardware about Matrox G 450 definitely not being overclockable. Just thought you might be interested as it's another of only maybe 3 cards in this class- dual monitor AGP's, that is.
 
Ok if you're not comfortable with it I totally understand.

Thanks for the tip about the Matrox. I'm not a big fan of dual head cards anyways. I know good overclockers are the V3 series (note that 3dfx was bought out by nVidia) and anything nVidia...TNT through GeForce.

I've got an AGP TNT2 running at 83Mhz...no problems.

Slackmaster 2000
 
New developments

83 mhz? Is that the bus speed? I'm guessing from this that AGP normally runs at 83 X (100/133)=63?

Is there a way to use this same math to adjust the memory and core speeds of the card to make it operate as if the AGP speed is normal? I now have Cardexpert Geforce 2 MX(not the dual version- I've given up on that for now). It comes with software called EXpertool that allows you to adjust the memory and core speed- I guess for gamers to overclock the video card itself. What I'm wondering is if lowering these numbers will make the card more stable.

i.e. If these numbers are set normally, but the AGP is running at 83mhz( or 33% faster or whatever it is), does that mean that the memory and core speeds are actually increased by the same factor? The default settings are 166Mhz memory and 175 core. But since my AGP is jacked up, are they really at 221 and 233? Perhaps setting them to 166 X (100/133)=125 and 132 will return the card to normal.

It appears to be basically functional if not a little jittery at 60 hz, although I'm still a little woozy from troubleshooting the former deepsea inducing setup, and I'm not 100% sure I can trust my eyes! If I try to go above 60hz the screen vibrates pretty bad. All I want to do is get 1024X768 at 70hz or maybe a little more out of my new 19" monitor. Is this expecting too much?

This article on a slightly different version of my card may be of interest as it discusses the mentioned settings, although there is no discussion of overclocked AGP's.

www.pcinsight.com/reviews/mxgs/mxgs3.asp

Thanks for sticking with me on this one.
 
I'm pretty sure you've got your numbers almost correct...

AGP and PCI both run at a multiple of the system bus. The BX standard allows PCI multipliers of 1/3 and 1/2 and AGP multipliers of 1/1 and 2/3. Modifications to BX allow for a 1/4 PCI multiplier and a 1/2 AGP multiplier (for 133Mhz FSB, all 133Mhz chipsets will have these multipliers...e.g. i8xx)

Both PCI and AGP devices must run at a *minimum* of 33 and 66Mhz respectively. So you use the multiplier that will give you a value closest to the desired frequency without going under.

I have a Celeron 400Mhz running at 500Mhz. In order to do this I had to increase the system bus speed from 66Mhz to 83Mhz. My BE6 only has AGP multipliers of 1/1 and 2/3 so I chose 1/1 which means that my video card is clocking at 83Mhz. I chose a 1/2 PCI multiplier which means that all of my PCI devices are clocking at 41Mhz.

You know, I just reread your post and you mentioned you were running an 800EB. Technically you're not overclocking your processor, and if the BE6 II has real 133Mhz support, you're not overclocking anything. Let's see here..............damn i have to download the entire manual to find out...........nope, I guess you are running your AGP at 133 * 2/3 = 89Mhz...yipes!

Now, these are external bus speeds. The core and memory speeds on your video card are completely independent (for the most part) of these speeds. The core speed is the speed of the card's processor and the memory speed is the speed that the card's processor talks to memory. So adjusting these values *probably* won't make much of a difference. Even if they do, they're not making a difference in the way you're thinking, and I still wouldn't call your system stable.

My first recommendation is to trade the 800EB in for a regular 800. I haven't seen enough evidence to demonstrate that the extra 33Mhz bus speed offers much performance increase on the BX chipset.

My second recommendation is to trade the BE6-II in for a new motherboard that supports 133Mhz FSB (for real). The BE6 is a great board but it's for *real* overclockers. You're not really intending to overclock, you just happen to have an EB processor.

My third recommendation would be to trade the video card in for something that will be more stable. This one I'm not too keen on because while at first I thought you were intending to overclock, it sounds now like you're just looking for a stable system. Running AGP at 89Mhz might be something that a geek like myself might be ok screwing around with...but if you're not into it, don't do it! I have never in my life seen a video card go bad....and I've always overclocked. The fact that you blew a V3, one of the more stable overclockers, suggests that maybe this setup isn't right for you.

Whatever you decide to do, no amount of tweeking is appropriate. Setting your monitor to 60Hz surely isn't a good solution to this problem. It would drive me nuts!

For the most part it sounds like you got a system with some decent components...which is rare for a machine that comes from a shop. If it weren't for that EB processor, you'd be golden.

Good luck to you!

Slackmaster 2000
 
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