Waves NLS and mastering

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JJ Jettflow

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Hi all:

Just joined HR and have a quick question about Waves NLS and how mastering engineers feel about it.
I am currently mixing my first ever ITB project and decided to give NLS a demo. I was very pleased what it did to my mixes and wish to purchase it. I do fully intend to have this project mastered but many mastering engineers frown upon FX on the master buss and since this works, by being places on each track and the master buss, perhaps it would be wasted money. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
Most mastering engineers prefer to have no compression or eq on the master buss when mixing. NLS is neither. It emulates an Analogue Console. If you like what it does to your mixes I'd say go on using it.
 
Thanks. I was thinking along the same lines but it does seem to sound a bit compressed (even with subtle settings) after using NLS so I was somewhat concerned. In fact, while searching, I found a similar product called Statson (no demo but only $40.00) that I picked up and I find it more transparent while adding similar vibe.
 
There are three other toys (that I know of) that are similar to NLS.
One is Satson. The other two are made by Sknote and by Redline.
The Satson is indeed more transparent sounding and using it instead of NLS is a question of personal preference.

Sknote has many more options and it is worth exploring if you're not too happy with what the other do for you (or even just to see what you get out of).
Redline "preamp" is the simplest of all.. it does not have separate channel and buss plugs, just 1 preamp to open on every channel. I've used it in the past and it is an excellent plugin.

But bear in mind that there are other plugins that can give similar results without being made just for that..
URS "saturator", for example, offers a great amount of preamps emulations and it is not half bad.

Just remember that one of the features of these plugins is to add gentle saturation (if you don't crank everything up) which, among other things, applies a little soft compression.
This type of compression is not like the one you get from a conventional compressor so I would not worry too much about it. It is (almost?) impossible to over-compress using these plugins.
You can easily over-saturate (distortion) but not over-compress.

Remember also that when you use these plugins the saturation effect added to each track will add up to the master buss so you don't want too much of that.. in theory (what's that?) you should not hear the saturation effect applied on a single track (unless you are going for that effect, like on an el. guitar, for example) but you should be able to hear it on the sub-busses and the master buss. Because of this, the mastering engineer will possibly use less compression in the mastering process, if any compression is needed at all.

Just in case you wonder what/how/why I should know this much about these plugins you can check me out here http://soundcloud.com/moosegarage
The song "This Sinking Feeling" was mixed using NLS. A compressor was still added in the mastering process.

Ciao
 
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I checked out several of these plugs and settled for Satson. I liked its vibe and those high and low pass filters are quite nice. I also stumbled across a plug called vintage warmer. It seems to work nicely with Satson. For the most part I set Vw2 to normal tape preset (fiddled with per track) but do not use it on the master buss. Only Satson is on the master buss. So far I am much happier with my mixes. Thanks
 
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redhoney said:
Most mastering engineers prefer to have no compression or eq on the master buss when mixing.
Click to expand...

usually, mastering engineers do not mix.
they master.
hence the title.

most all of the mastering engineers i've known or worked with, always use compression and eq.
 
I agree with you.

What I meant was that mastering engineers prefer to work on mixes where no eq or compression was added on the master buss at the mixing stage because, as you said, they will almost inevitabily use those tools themselves.
 
True story to some extent. Personally? I almost always have some sort of 'glue' on the 2-buss - whether it's the VariMu or the SS=oweL (long story there, basically a hot-rodded 4000E/G unit). THAT SAID, it's basically more for the 'glue' and the 'flavor' than to actually actively change the dynamic range more than a dB or two. If the mix is asking for more than that, it's probably needing it somewhere in the mix.

EQ on the other hand... Typically I'd say "nah..." but if it's a set of well-matched Pultecs or the like - and it really needs it, I could see that. Again - dB or dB.5 adjustments.

I actually have a mixing project coming up (yeah, it happens - rarely - but some people are still crazy enough) and it wouldn't surprise me if my BAX makes it to the 2-buss for a 1/2dB of something or other.

In either case - Those would be things that are hooked up and engaged long before the mix is anywhere near completion.
 
GONZO-X said:
usually, mastering engineers do not mix.
they master.
hence the title.

most all of the mastering engineers i've known or worked with, always use compression and eq.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure that's what he meant. You guys agree.
 
well if you are home mastering then the NLS should be fine to use. but if you're sending it off to a mastering engineer definitely bypass any and all master buss plug-ins
 
I don't agree you should switch it off. If you mixed this through a NEVE console I would not say "Can I have the mix direct from your DAW please?" Absolutely sum this with this software if you feel this is adding some useful contribution to your mix down. Worst case scenario you can send a version without it as well. Do whatever you need to get a good sounding mix it is predominantly heavy compression and limiting on the stereo master output bus which can cause some problems for a mastering engineer.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
online mastering studio
 
SafeandSound said:
I don't agree you should switch it off. If you mixed this through a NEVE console I would not say "Can I have the mix direct from your DAW please?"
Click to expand...


well a plug-in is definitely not a neve console...I think we both know there is A LOT more going on there. IMO the NLS clouds things up on the master buss, that's why I'd suggest bypassing it. NLS does sound good on individual channels though.
 
Ultimately the person mixing the track must be entitled to utilize what they think makes the mix better. Unless you want a second opinion from an experienced professional. NLS is emulating summing in a desk, if it sounds better to the mix engineer when attaining a creative goal, it is better.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
Online mastering studio
 
SafeandSound said:
Ultimately the person mixing the track must be entitled to utilize what they think makes the mix better. Unless you want a second opinion from an experienced professional. NLS is emulating summing in a desk, if it sounds better to the mix engineer when attaining a creative goal, it is better.
Click to expand...

Yea i guess you're right man. hey, if it sounds good it sounds good, who am I to argue. But 9 times out of 10 I'd ask for a mixdown without it...that is if I even knew it was there to begin with
 
I don't see any problem with using it. If you were mixing through a desk it would have this saturation.
 
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