WATCH a collab between fritzthegirl, ido1957, fat_fleet & rayc

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rayc

rayc

retroreprobate


The links take you to the latest mix of Watch with fritzthegirl on vocals, ido1957 on lead guitar & fat_fleet on drums.
Thank you to those folk for their invaluable contributions.

THis mix is an update, different internal drum mix etc.
Thoughts?
Ouch, punches not pulled and dead arm sustained.
Here's the song with the distorted guitars removed and the one effected guitar (the synthy sounding one) out as well.

Here's everything back in again but with a little verb and comp on the master bus

have a listen and give me a chance to get the circulation back.

This is a mono mix for East Coast AUS time 8/9/13.
Synth gtr reduced, wah rhythm gone, vox reduced. NO REVERB. Does it still sound wet?
For those of you who've not been subjected to them previously - here are the lyrics...
Watch
I have a job
I have a motor car
I have a passport
But don’t go too far
A pair of field bins
An accurate map
All within reach
There’s no handicap

I keep a close watch on the words you say
I keep a close watch on the interplay
I keep a close watch on the things you do
I keep a close watch on you

I have a life
And acquaintances
I have a good home
Secure finances
I‘ve obligations
And a sense of place
Two obsessions
And a travel case.

I keep a close watch as the pattern grow
I keep a close watch on the tracks in snow
I keep a close watch on anything new
I keep a close watch on you

Some recordings
And a 3 month log
I have night goggles
I see through the fog
I have a timeline
And an outcome planned
Some documents
And I’ll get those scanned.

I keep a close watch on your DNA
I keep a close watch on the games you play
I keep a close watch but don’t misconstrue
I keep a close watch on you

I have neighbours
And a plain blue van
I have collections
And a tested plan
I have duct tape
And a special place
All within reach
And a “just in case”

I keep a close watch on you night & day
I keep a close watch on your resume
I keep a close watch and the points accrue
I keep a close watch on you

I keep a close watch on the words you say
I keep a close watch on the interplay
I keep a close watch on the things you do
I keep a close watch on you
 
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Definitely better with real drums. Flat Feet's drumming suits this just right.

BUT, the drums need to come up, especially the kik. The snare seems to come and go too, but the kik is really sort of vague, volume-wise. It's weird because the drum machine drums were way louder than these real drums are.

But it's definitely a step in the right direstion, with good, well played real drums.
 
Cool. It definitely has much more movement with these drums. The melody has been altered some since I first heard this which is cool.

The drums do sound kind of boxy and lacking in clarity to me though. Did you do much processing to them, or did erik do much prior to sending to you? I can't tell what it is, but it just seems like it could be tidied up a bit.
 
RAMI said:
Definitely better with real drums. Flat Feet's drumming suits this just right.

BUT, the drums need to come up, especially the kik. The snare seems to come and go too, but the kik is really sort of vague, volume-wise. It's weird because the drum machine drums were way louder than these real drums are.

But it's definitely a step in the right direstion, with good, well played real drums.
Click to expand...

Thanks RAMI, but if you could hear the kick you'd take back that well-played part!
 
I almost wish the vocals were more upfront. Like maybe bit thicker compression?
 

This is the new mix as of 040913 on my side of the world.
ff supplied a different drum mix, I lowered the harmonics so they don't pop out so much and little things like that.
 
This sounds very disjointed to me. That drum pattern does not work for me for this song. Not even a little. It's a complete mess. And regardless of all that, the space of the mix is all off. The vocals are clear and dry-ish and right up front. The drums are banging away way in the back all boxy and roomy, and the spacey guitars and bass are floating around somewhere in the middle. You would think that's a normal mix - vocals up front, music in the middle, drums in back, but it's just too much here. I'd say dry up everything. Don't use any weird effects. Let's hear a mix with everything just raw.
 
The bass drum isn't solid. There's no "foundation" to the mix because of that. I think the groove being played is fine, but the bass drum needs to be more solid. If you can't play that bass drum rhythm solid, then simplify it, and bring it out in the mix a bit more. I see what Greg is saying about the space being all weird. Less 'verb on the drums at least.
 
Greg,
being overly literal I removed the noisy stuff and left the song naked except for bass, drums, 2 x rhythm guitars, an arpggio guitar over the choruses and the solo - PLUS vocals.

There was no reverb added by me on the last mix. The synthy guitar does sound wet I'll grant you & the solo may have come with a little delay but, essentially, everything is dry.

Seafroggy,
This mix is the same as before but with a limter & reverb on the master bus. See if that makes things sound more to you liking.
I've been really happy with the drums but I'm not a drummer - I hope fat_fleet's not wincing.
OK folks,
Let me know how the naked version sounds and whether my added "textures" are redundant.
 
Ok so the "noisy stuff" has been removed and to me it sounds better. I'd say lose the "synth" guitar tracks all together, or use an actual synth - in moderation. I think maybe you're overcooking it a bit with layers and compression and weird guitar tracks and too much effects and stuff. I mean totally plain and dry isn't the answer either, but I think some of your processing is going to far. And I'm sorry to fat fleet, I'm not trying to be a dick or harsh, but those drums are really a mess. They're sloppy and inconsistent. They're just not working. I think the vocals ride on top of the mix no matter which version I'm listening to and that also adds to the disjointedness of the whole thing. I'd like to hear them in the mix more. I think I'd compress the dogshit out of them to flatten and even them out, and then drop em into the mix. Keep em clean but add a little delay. No more compression or reverb on anything else. Keep everything clean and tidy and work with the levels. But ultimately, the drums kill the whole thing. The performance and overall sound of the drum tracks just don't work. I'm sorry for that. :(
 
Greg_L said:
I'm sorry for that. :(
Click to expand...

Hey man, speaking for myself, don't ever apologize or stop being honest when it comes to this shit. Your opinion is extremely well respected and this is the one aspect of the forum where honestly is needed, whether pleasant or not

The reason I don't hear the drums as a mess is because......I don't really hear the drums. So, I wasn't just trying to be "nice" (as if) as much as, like I said, I found the drums vague and hard to really pin point.

Ray, this is a good song. Maybe put it in the "Mix This" forum just for the shit of it, see what happens.
 
Well thanks for that. I genuinely like all of the participants on this collab, so I don't want to come off as a dick or whatever. I'm just saying what I hear.
 
I got here late and I'm not exactly sure which mix I should be listening to. So I just listened to the last mix at the bottom of page one.

I agree that the reverb difference between the vocal and everything else is too dramatic.

Also agree about the drums. They tighten up a little bit later in the song. But they're wobbly early in the song. And they just try to do to much I think. Too busy.

I think if the tempo were just a bit slower it would have worked out better. Things overall are a bit rushed.

The lead guitar solo is way back in the mix.
 
All of the mixes up there have their good and bad points. If you keep the synthy noise stuff (which I think I like at least at the beginning and end) maybe keep them much lower in volume more as a background texture kind of thing.

I still like the busy drums myself. I think without that there just isn't enough going on rhythmically for me. I get that the performance isn't as tight as it could be and if that could be improved I think it'd make a big difference, but I like the mellow, shuffling beat as a contrast to the other elements.

I'm just not sold on any of the mixes yet myself.
 
The mix on the bottom is better. Still think you should bring out the bass drum a bit more for that foundation. The vocals have a weird sonic pattern. Its hard to pinpoint. Its as if the vocals are sitting on top of the mix but aren't distinct. Like there needs to be more high-mids to push the vocals forward, and then maybe some volume reduction so they sit better.
 
Well most of this talk is way above my head...I'm not stupid or anything, but I reckon it can't have been easy to mix this cacophony of different sounds like the ones we've got going on in this tune. I like the drums a lot, I don't have a problem with those at all. But I'm not a drummer. Still, the first time I listened I thought they fit the mood of the tune quite well. Such a girl, going on emotion.

My vocals are pretty tame for the surrounding sounds, I do hear this. I am not adverse to teaming up with a guy on these, or even if you fancied trying them with a male singer. No worries at all.

Anyways, you know I liked the naked version, all excepting the 'interlude' and perhaps the last couple of choruses, where you could go a bit crazy with whatever you fancied I reckon. That's most likely how I would have 'mixed' it, which I guess is basically not much mixing at all.

That's not to say I haven't enjoyed listening to all the versions you've done. I guess my ears are just pretty naive, and easily pleased with the basics. Good work Ray, admire your spirit in keeping at it, it's taught me a lot reading all the feedback and how you've responded to it, no doubt. Also, I'm nowhere near sick of hearing this tune. :)
 
This one reminds me of The London Suede a bit. I like it. It's way better with real drums than it was before without. Maybe the part isn't tight enough, but if so the part can be done again, cuz THE TUNE'S WAY BETTER WITH REAL DRUMS. Ray, you're always gonna get differences of opinion. Listen to who's saying what, and then ask yourself if that rings true for you. If so, follow it.
 
I'm pleased people care to comment - everything has been positive in that it's been directed at improving the song: that's the point.
I've been in some threads where vicious but fair is a reasonable description but this, SO FAR, has been a lively and frank exchange.
Believe me I go downstairs and try almost everything offered as a suggestion.
The only thing I have a problem with is reverb - and that's because there really isn't any except on the limited mix.
That may suggest that some of the levels & placements suggest reverb or something is wrong with somewhere else.
Effects wise, there's not much going on except for a wah, a big muff clone & the synthy MBV thing - though there's an amp sim on the solo (lightly).
fat_fleet, I dug it. What we do next with that aspect will be based on how disposed towards the song you feel next time yoyu hear it.
Yep, as was said - there's a big chunk of respect for folk who've commented.
It's simply a case of me going back to the drawing board with the mix.
You all suspect I over do the tracking side - ask Greg for verification on that - I sent him a collab to mix a year or so ago when my computer crashed & he had to strip half the tracks away before he could find the song...
I'm happy with the feedback - I have to get back to listening properly.
The backing was built before the vocal and drums & I suppsoe I've hung onto that & tried to bend everything to fit it rather than make a song.
Settling FTG's vocal is an issue because I can't agree with myself on a level and I don't want to use reverb as that accentuates essing.
I'll go back to the basic track & mono and rebuild the mix from there.
I should be able to get to this properly soon - I'm back to my real job in a month so should have time & brain space to get to it.
 

Here's a final mix before I leave this project for a fortnight to give myself some perspective.
This is a mono mix - everything straight up the middle/no panning - with vocals reduced a little, synthy guitar reduced a lot, NO wah rhythm guitar and everything else pretty much as it was.
With tracks stacked on top it certainly does point to EQ overlaps and other matters.
Oh, as with the previolus mixes (excpet the limted ones) there's no reverb anywhere - a little delay on the solo is all.
Does the reduced synthy guitar change the perception that it was a wet mix?
 
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