Wasting Away

  • Thread starter Thread starter david baker
  • Start date Start date
I think the drums are too loud. The section starting at 2:12 is the best example of it. Those cymbals are smashing and distracting. I'd also work the vocal differently - the drop in volume into the screaming sections is exaggerated. 1:42 - 1:50 compared to 1:52 is a good example of why the vocals need more work. Look at volume/gain automation/edits and then compress later. Balancing of the instruments sounds like it'll bring this much closer to the end goal.

The performances and recordings are great, but the mix needs some more work.
 
Thanks for the input ,Funny thing is those were the things that were kinnda bugging me as well.
 
andrushkiwt said:
I think the drums are too loud. The section starting at 2:12 is the best example of it. Those cymbals are smashing and distracting. I'd also work the vocal differently - the drop in volume into the screaming sections is exaggerated. 1:42 - 1:50 compared to 1:52 is a good example of why the vocals need more work. Look at volume/gain automation/edits and then compress later. Balancing of the instruments sounds like it'll bring this much closer to the end goal.

The performances and recordings are great, but the mix needs some more work.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above and also have to ask you what speakers you're doing your mixing on? Most of your tracks in this mix seem to have a bit too much in the high end in general. The vocal has a lot of sibilance in my opinion......as do other tracks. It's not terrible but tends to tell me your playback system might be a bit dark.
 
Agree with everything above. More the cymbals and hats area little loud than anything. I also noticed your overall volume is reeeaaaally low. I had the volume all the way up and still wasn't very loud. Good performances though.
 
Re worked Automation: specifically Drums and the problems with the vocal fluctuations( Clip and track automation for both Volume and sibilance) ,changed some of the over all EQ to bring out more low end Body ,This song has a lot of high end content, Many elect guitars and a couple of acoustic guitar parts ,Not trying to make excuses just stating what I'm working with. if It still sounds like it has too much high end content maybe some one could make a suggestion. I have boasted the low end don't really want to go up on mid lows for fear of making it sound muddy .As far as my play back speakers they are Presonus Eris Series E4.5 so if any thing they would have a tendency to lack
low end .Any way Here is the Latest mix . Thanx View attachment Wasting Away2.Mp3
Cheers, David.
 
"now who will be"...that whole section, the vocals are much too loud. the following chorus is quiet compared to it, and she's yelling there. :) The next verse has the same issues. and the chorus after, same thing. if you want the vocal volume problem to change, you HAVE to get in there and manually edit the gain of the individual phrases. the changes are so extreme, unprocessed, that you have no other choice. it might take you 3 hours, but that's the only way they'll sound decent. a good way to do that is to mute everything and just watch some meter/plugin that is telling you the output level of the vocal consistently and adjust from there.

is this one vocal track? if so, then to make it easier for you, just cut the chorus vocals onto a separate track and process them differently. you can still send it to the same vocal bus so verb and overall eq is the same, but having the second vocal channel for the chorus vox will allow you to adjust the level better. you can even insert a compressor (after manual changes in gain) afterwards to compress the chorus vocal however it requires, and it'll get the same vocal bus compressor as well. just make sure your thresholds are set up so the chorus vocal compressor isn't acting AFTER the bus compressor, but before it (via threshold).

The snare needs to come up, it's really low now. Listen to the snare fill at 2:12 (if you can!). You can't hear exactly what's being played. I thought the cymbals, in general, were much better in this mix. I also thought the brightness of the track, overall, was comparable to modern top 40 songs.

Just keep working the vocal level within each individual phrase. A second channel for chorus vox will help a lot, but you'll still need to do it. And the drums can come up a touch, the snare in particular.
 
Great composition and performed admirably, but I agree that the drums sound a bit too loud
 
No. It sounds like you didn't want to manually edit the volumes, so you limited the vocals drastically. I'm saying this because of audible distortion on the vocal as well as the "ess" sections sounding like a lisp...the esses are sometimes 15db louder than the rest, naturally, and those are slammed terribly here. And when they are hit that hard with compression, they sound like lisps. That's what you have. 3:19-3:20 is lisping.

I told you earlier you need to manually edit the volume by hand without a compressor. Even out the volume word by word, or this won't work. That's where the "work" comes in.

If you don't know how to do that, it's pretty easy, just time consuming. Highlight the wav, enlarge the view of the waveform, chop the wav into sections according to big volume changes, then drag the loudest peaks down. It could be every few words, it could be the "big" important lines in the chorus, just use your ears and eyes for this task.
 
andrushkiwt said:
No. It sounds like you didn't want to manually edit the volumes, so you limited the vocals drastically. I'm saying this because of audible distortion on the vocal as well as the "ess" sections sounding like a lisp...the esses are sometimes 15db louder than the rest, naturally, and those are slammed terribly here. And when they are hit that hard with compression, they sound like lisps. That's what you have. 3:19-3:20 is lisping.

I told you earlier you need to manually edit the volume by hand without a compressor. Even out the volume word by word, or this won't work. That's where the "work" comes in.

If you don't know how to do that, it's pretty easy, just time consuming. Highlight the wav, enlarge the view of the waveform, chop the wav into sections according to big volume changes, then drag the loudest peaks down. It could be every few words, it could be the "big" important lines in the chorus, just use your ears and eyes for this task.
Click to expand...

I Really want to thank u for your input on this mix. I'm at a bit of a lose here ; Here is what I did: 1.split vox into two tracks as suggested,2.Did Gain Staging to both tracks, used gain plug in and made sure each were below 0Db at all times(using Klanghelm meter plug in on Sub Master Bus) 3.Went through each track ,split into phases, got rid of breaths, and noise ect,4.Did Clip gain adjustments on each phrase as to bring down loud and bring up soft sections on a micro level as suggested in above paragraph .Did this with both tracks .Finally , used another gain plug on each track and a vu meter ,enlarged the wave form again and automated the gain plug ins to bring both tracks into the same range during transitions between the two Then I adjusted the volume on each tracks slider to maintain consistency between the two going into the vox bus .The compression I applied to the tracks was after all that: two compressors stacked 2:1 ratio ,10ms attack,80ms release Threshold set so to get 3-6Db Gain reduction Knee at 7. So as I have said, I Really do appreciate your input. But its not that I don't want to do the "work". The things listed above took many hours and I am willing to put more hours into it if need be because its really starting to drive me nuts. Thanks David
 
Then something, maybe one of those gain plugins, is causing volume trouble. You really don't need any of those. Just keep the wavs as they originally were and manually adjust the loud parts down. That's it. No gain plugs neccesary.

Sorry can't respond in more detail right now. You have a ton of distortion and lisping going on though. Its a great song and performance and it needs a good vocal mix.
 
Once again, thank u for your input on this mix. I keep listening and although I do hear some amount of semblance on her s's ,to my ears it doesn't seem as bad as you are hearing ,as for distortion ; I'm not hearing it at all. Nor dose the vocal appear to be over compressed to my ears. I got this song from Warren Huart over at the produce like a pro web site. Just for giggles I'm going to post the reference mix he provided. You will notice that I took some production liberties ,but that's not the issue we are talking about. To my ears his reference mix also has some semblance going on. Maybe I just need to step away from this track for a bit ; come back in a few weeks and listen with fresh ears and try it again(too much ownership at this point lost objectivity).Once a gain thanks for the feed back you have been a great help in steering me in the right direction on other mixes and I have learned as a result.
David
 
"Just as", in the first line, is distorted and warbled. Something weird is going on in that phrase. The very next line has severe lisping. SEVERE. If you can't hear it, then I really don't know what to tell you. I can't even make out what she's singing in the second phrase because the de-esser/compressor is clamping down so hard on it and it's giving her a severe lisp. You can honestly not hear that?

The first verse that has drums, again, severe lisping on every "s" sound. Listen to "there to catch me". The "tch" in catch is clamped down on so hard that it sounds like she has a speech impediment.

I could go on and on with examples in this track. Yeah, step away, take a break, something. Or...just turn off all your plugins and listen to the vocal without them. If you can't hear the difference between the "s" sounds on the raw track and with your processing, then I really don't know what more to tell you man. Sorry if it sounds harsh, it's just plain as day that there's major lisping going on.

So again, get rid of gain plugins. You don't need them. Take them off and just use manual vocal rides. Again, gently bring the loud words/phrases down a little and the quiet ones up. But by using your ears and eyes...if it doesn't sound like it needs to come up, then leave it.

Seriously though, I'm baffled as to how you cannot hear every single "s" or peak being clamped down one so much that it produces artifacts and speech impediments. I can't help with that part.
 
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