Warming up tracks with a tube preamp like ART?

M

memo

New member
Ok here's a question. Say you have a pre-recorded drum or guitar track, and you want it to have some sort of a tube "warmness". Can you just run the prerecorded track through the ART tube preamp and get it warmed up? I have some doubts about this since the prerecorded track will already be at line level, and I guess the signal will get messed up when the ART tries to preamplify a line level signal.

Is there any way to do this? Like warming the sound of electronic drums, or prerecorded tracks?

?
 
ART makes amore expensive model called the DUAL MP that also has line inputs and can be used in the way you describe.If you have a big,good sounding room and are feeling adventurous,run your tracks through some monitors pretty loud(to excite the room)and put some mics up to capture the sound of this interaction.If you have some patience to try different mic placements etc. you can get some BIG sounds that way,too! Cheers!
 
I remember reading somewhere that Pink Floyd used a similar technique to record two songs from A Momentary Lapse of Reason (A New Machine?) Except the big room was the a big basketball arena...
Just a thought!
-Evan

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by virtual.ray:
If you have a big,good sounding room and are feeling adventurous,run your tracks through some monitors pretty loud(to excite the room)and put some mics up to capture the sound of this interaction.If you have some patience to try different mic placements etc. you can get some BIG sounds that way,too! Cheers!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Memo - I seem to remember Sonusman (resident engineer) saying he not only used the ARTs for tracking, but when he was mixing down as well. If he can do it, it can be done, but you'll have to adjust the levels.
 
Yes, the ART MP can be used with both mic and line levels, according to ART. Be sure you pad the incoming level and most importantly, make sure you don't clip the signal. A big misconception that people have about the unit is that they can push the levels and overdrive the tube, but in fact, the tube only adds "tube coloring" - most of the signal processing is solid state. A few months ago there was a topic on another BBS (guess which one) and one guy actually discovered his unit would work without the tube. Go figure.
 
Actually I think Ed runs his mix through an Art Tube LeVeLaR. Not an MP.

I've tried this and I've found that the MP dosen't really add a lot of "warmth" to the signal. Actually what I've ended up doing instead is running things through my Mesa Boogie DC-3- now were talking warm.....


Also I've put the Art in between my reverb and the effects return, it did add a little darker quality to the verb which is what I was going for.

-jhe
 
Actually, Ed runs every mix through an ART Dual MP to the soundcard while mixing. I have mixed a few things using the Dual Levelar behind the MP, but, this setup only works well for me with certain mixes.

CurtG. I have found that depending upon what is causing the preamp to clip, that you can sometimes bring the ART to clipping without any AUDIBLE distortion artifacts. Yes, it is a solid state tube hybrid device, but solid state doesn't mean you cannot clip the input without audible distortion. In fact, on most mixes and while tracking, I find it desirable to get the imcoming signal to get the clip light to just start to light up on louder passages. Feel free to download a bunch of mp3 (all at 192kbs) off of my website where I have successfully used this technique.

About the ART noise. If you are using 16 bit converters, I don't really think it is really much of an issue. On 24 bit converters, it becomes more of an issue because the ART's noise is certainly louder then any dithering. But, I don't think that even then that the nominal hiss produced by the unit is a bad trade off for the color and transient control the unit provides. It may not be perfect, but it is the best sounding preamp that I have heard for under $1000 per channel new.

Ed
 
sonusman, you are correct. I read the MP manual and it states: "The clip LED is positioned at the tube's output circuitry and lights when a level 6dB below hard clipping dB is reached." (notice it doesn't say what color)

I notice that when I push the input, it first lights amber, then red, so I am guessing that the amber is the 6dB threshold and red is 0db (hard clipping)? Does this seem reasonable?

Anyway, I try not to allow clipping in any solid state device where I am trying to record a "clean/pure" signal (easier said than done!) Of course clipping has it's place when used for effect.

p.s. I'm downloading an mp3. Man, you've got a great looking (and probably great sounding) mobile studio!



[This message has been edited by CurtG (edited 06-24-2000).]
 
Ed: "I don't think that even then that the nominal hiss produced by the unit is a bad trade off for the color and transient control
the unit provides."

I like the color of the ART as well, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'transient control'. 'Transient control' = 'short signals don't clip'? See, I'm using a compressor when I track, so if the ART supplies mild compression of the signal preventing clipping of transient, that's nice, but how important is it?

[This message has been edited by dobro (edited 06-25-2000).]
 
It depends dobro. I just find that I have far less transient spikes that overload the A/D converters if I run the ART a little hot at the input stage. You have to be careful not to overdo it because you can create audible distortion if you run it too hot. Often, I find that I don't really need compression going to tape on some things by doing this. If I do elect to use a compressor because the source is still a little more dynamic, at least the little bit of compression the ART is providing is compression a compressor doesn't have to provide, and trust me, any compression the ART provides is far more transparent the most compressors.

This is where the art of recording comes into play my friend. You move the mic, play with levels, change the source sound, etc...until you get a sound that works well for your song, and, get's good level to tape.

Ed
 
Ed,

Have you checked out the Bellari Rp220 mic pre? About $350 for stereo, and I'll take it over the ART any day. It seems like you can push it a lot harder than the ART before it starts clipping.....
 
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