Want to start Chior/Orchestra Recording

  • Thread starter Thread starter ds21
  • Start date Start date
D

ds21

New member
What mics would you suggest to start out with?

This would only be for local churches, schools and such nothing major, would be on location recording, 8 tracks available.

From what I've read, the Decca tree seams to be the setup of choice, I can't afford Nuemans or anything like that, thinking more in the line of Oktava or SP. Or would you suggest something else to start, maybe just a stereo pair seeing as it would be an uncontroled enviroment.

I can get a couple Oktava MK012 for $199.00/pr, or the Rode NT5 mached pairs for $299.00. at that price than I could get a couple more mics for whatever comes up.

What do you think?

Thanks!
 
I'd also suggest looking at pair of multi pattern ld. Check out pairs of SP B3s, C3s, CAD M179s...

If you have cash to spare, a jecklin disc and some Earthworks omnis would be a cool thing to have...

What's your preamp of choice? I remember back in the day, I thought a blue tube would be fine for stereo room micing...man was I wrong. :)
 
I would suggest a good matched pair. Start out with NT5's or MK012's or SP C4's and then when you get the experience work up to some Josephson C42's, Gefells, Km184's, or DPA at the highest price for your main stereo pair. Also it wouldn't hurt to have a few Figure of 8 ribbons, or condensers for Blumelin. Maybe look to Coles or even a couple U87's. Another must is a good stereo bar. Also there is the whole spaced omni's approach which can work very well for large groups or choirs.

Later you can look at getting spot mics. If you get good you can earn lots of money, though, to be succesful you'll end up dishing out lots of money on mics, pres, converters, etc.

Good Luck.
Beez
 
Last edited:
the easiest and most effective way to begin this type of work is with a good matched pair of SD condensers set up as an ORTF pair. ORTF will almost always give a reasonable result, and positioning is not extremely critical as it is with spaced omnis. as you get more experience and money, you can start adding spot mics to your setup. do not try to do a decca tree - that setup can be very problemmatic and proper postiioning is quite tricky - it should be left to those with more experience. as far as mic choices, most of the mics mentioned above are not optimized for diffuse field work. most inexpensive mics these days also suffer from hyped top ends, which are a detriment to diffuse field work, and exacerbate the hyped top end problem, such that your result will be thin, lacking bottom end, and often a bit strident in the top. even km184s have this issue to deal with, though i have made some fairly good ORTF recordings with them with some careful tweaking. most LD mics are not a good choice for this type of work unless you move up to some pretty sophisitcated mics such as the akg c426 or neumann u67s or such that have a relatively flat response curve. i do not recommend ribbons (i've owned a pair of royer r-121s, which are nice mics, but in the long run a bit muted for the generally clean sound you probably want for classically-oriented material) as a main pair for ensemble and choral work, but they can be excellent supplemental mics, and they can do an excellent job as a blumlein pair for small string ensembles in a good space. anyway, look for a pair fo SD condensers that have the flattest response curve you can afford. i use a pair of schoeps cmc64s, which may be out of your price range, but you may be able to find a good used pair of older neumann km84s (flat) or a pair of the new josephson c42s (only moderately hyped) for around $1000 or so. the little gefell M300s are about the only mic i know of in a lower price range (about $600/pair used) that can actually do a good job. if you must settle for really inexpensive mics like the NT5s or octavas, just accept that you will continually be fighting your gear to get a good result. it is not impossible, just more difficult. good luck.
 
Don't buy a lot of cheap crap!
Instead spend as much money as you possibly can on a pair of GREAT small diaphragm capacitor mikes. Choir is really hard on the mics, causing lots of strange intermodulation effects in the diaphragm that causes most cheap mics to distort. It's not just that it doesn't sound good, it can in bad cases (really high soprano stuff with not the best intonation) sound as clipping, and be completely useless.
So, if you can afford it, go ahead and buy a pair of Shoeps or DPA or B&K or Josephson series six or sennheiser MKH; perhaps you'll have to live of pasta for a year but you'll have bragging rights around here for a decade! :) If you can't afford those, at least get a $1000-pair like Audio-Technica 40** or Josephson series four or Neumann or similar. I haven't tried the Rodes so I can't say that they won't work, but I think chances are they won't. If you absolutely have to buy cheap I suggest you just get a pair of ECM8000 for $70. They will be a tad noisy but otherways work OK; especially in churches where the acoustics are good, and being cheap as hell they will postpone the time when you can afford great mikes as little as possible!
 
I am with jnorman, this is a professional without doubt, who knows his shit.

Take a pair of decent SD condensers and put them in your garden in an ORTF placement.

Now go back to your controlroom or whatever and put on a decent pair of cans like the Sennheiser HD600.

Close your eyes and listen very carefully to what you hear.

What you hear is a stereo image that's almost the same like what you hear when you are standing in your garden.

Something like this will happen if you put these mics in front of a choir. Put them behind the conductor some 10 to 12' high.

In a good sounding room an MS pair will work good as well.
 
O.K. I've decided to wait and get a better pair of mics, I know for a lot of things you get what you pay for, and this seems to be one of them.

Thanks!
 
It took me a bit to figure out IMHO

so....

what's ORTF? I've read a little on stereo recording so I'm sure the answer is slapping me in the face, but to avoid the brain strain, what is it?!?

D out ITNOJ
 
Thank you Kindly!

Like I thought, I had read about that placement but not about the obscure french phrase that the cat who wrote the article couldn't even remember!

And now, like many, I have added another site to my favorites folder and who know when I'll be able to sit down and read it!:)

thanks again, especially for the link!

D out ITNOJ
 
Granted several of these links from this page are deep but glance at them anyway many times reading over my head some good info soaks in anyway.
Josephson Mic Technique

Also some searches slip by with names like stereo pair etc. try these as key words Coincident pair and Near Coincident pair and pull out a few good writeups.
 
I record a lot of orchestral work

Not having a lot of money to spend on mics. I have found using a pair of Audio Technica 853 choir mics in an ORTF pattern about 9' up and 3' behind the conductor gives a beautiful recording. Excellent spacial qualities, and proper instrumental spacing.
They mics have a very flat wide response.
 
I am way to new at this to give any advice about microphones, but I have lots of experience being in church and community choirs.

Of the several times the choirs that I have been involved in were recorded the best results were obtained with a pair of microphones more or less in an ORTF pair (I didn't use my protractor to check the angle). The times when they brought in dozens of microphones were almost always trash. Why? Because these are not professionals used to working with microphones all over the place. It was intimidating. For school children less than college level it would be even worse I imagine.

On the other hand there might be dealing with someone who thinks that you are not doing your job unless there are numerous mics. You might just have to add some mostly unused ones just to satisfy the customer.

The next consideration is that the church architecture itself may place a limit on what you are doing. If this is a church that you have not recorded in definitly I would scout it out beforehand. If the choir is in a choir loft then your best location for an ORTF pair may be out in the middle of the air many feet above the ground. You may have to compromise by placing the mics closer and with a wider spread. In my current church the ideal position for the microphones would be right in the middle of the altar. If we were recording just a concert that would be fine, but if it was a special service that would be unacceptable.

Some churches do have good accoustincs and some have absolutely dreadfull accoustics....and some with good accoustics when they are full are disasters if only a few people show up. And with that audience will come the guy with the perpetual cough and the impatient and misbehaving children and the teething infant. Yet the choir (who I am presuming will be the primary purchasers of your work) will want to hear on the CD the thunderous applause that they recieved. So put an omni microphone on its own track that you can ramp up for the applause and down to nothing the rest of the time. Apart from that I would not make any real effort to capture the room qualtities of the typical church or school auditorium.

Then you have the case where for the concert they have brought the choir to the front of the church but the organ is still back up in the choir loft! Obviously you will need a separate mic for the organ and some long cables to reach back there. So when you scout the location do not presume where the choir and accompianists will be. Ask.

Also ask if there are going to be any other elements (like an introduction by the pastor, inspriational readings, etc.) that will be wanted to be included in the recording. And it will change. Saving one channel/microphone for when, at the last minute, they say "We had this great idea and decided to...." is probably a good idea. With churches you are dealing with folks who fundamentally believe in acting as the spirit moves them at the moment rather than making plans. (Also pastors, as a group, tend to be micro-managers.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top