want to get into analog

I

iivanov88

New member
Hello, I have been into digital audio for three years and find myself ultimately unsatisfied with how cold it sounds. My favourite music seems to be mostly done on analog and I much prefer everything else I do in analog (photo, film, vinyl). Now I have NO idea about the analog audio world at all, I just know that I will love it. First off, I have several questions:

What is the difference between reel to reel and tape based recorders?
What are the main variables to look at when choosing a recorder?
Will it be a good approach to record analog and then transfer it to digital and edit much like film is transferred to video to maintain its feel?
Can I use a soundcard that can act as a standalone preamp(s) to go into the analog recorder? Is the ad converter simply inert in standalone and the preamps do their job? i.e. the presonus firestudio project or the motu 8pre.
Can you suggest a good reel to reel recorder for me in the 300-400 range?
Any other general information to make note of for someone not in the analog know/differences to take into account when comparing digital to analog, etc?
 
Why not play around with mixing down to a decent cassette machine ($25 if you look around.) Clean and demagnitize it (a few bux more) and try mixing down to it at differing levels and master dynamics settings.

If you hear a difference that you like, invest in doing more with a reel to reel.

I have a well regarded Teac, but have not really gotten it up and running since I have not felt like my firepod / Cubase LE recordings have sounded sterile.

Source material has more to do with what you are sensing, I bet.
 
Obi-Wan zenabI said:
Source material has more to do with what you are sensing, I bet.
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i doubt it, also I just love the psychological thrill of everything analog, and it seems like there is a world of experimentation with the whole tape manipulation thing, which sounds so thrilling to me.

anyway, to be honest, what i REALLY want to know at this point is if the presonus firestudio can act as an analog preamp in standalone.
 
iivanov88 said:
What is the difference between reel to reel and tape based recorders?
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In no particular order of importance: Price, size, weight, sound / fidelity, speed, track count, cost of media (tape), ease of servicing / maintenance, convenience, prestige, to name a few differences.

What are the main variables to look at when choosing a recorder?
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To put simply and generally, if it has the features you're looking for. You first have to know what exactly you want and need in your recorder.

Will it be a good approach to record analog and then transfer it to digital and edit much like film is transferred to video to maintain its feel?
Click to expand...

Absolutely, Yes!

Can I use a soundcard that can act as a standalone preamp(s) to go into the analog recorder? Is the ad converter simply inert in standalone and the preamps do their job? i.e. the presonus firestudio project or the motu 8pre.
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From what I gather about these 2 preamps, yes it's possible to use it with the recorder BUT if you're planning to use a stand along recorder, you'd be better off using a recording mixer (one for studio use) as this would give you much more flexibility (monitoring etc....), again, depending on which recorder you get.

Can you suggest a good reel to reel recorder for me in the 300-400 range?
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How many tracks do you need? Do you have a mixer?

Any other general information to make note of for someone not in the analog know/differences to take into account when comparing digital to analog, etc?
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Well, maintenance issues on "vintage" gear is a turn off for some. Also you need to pay close attention ware on an analog tape recorder prior to purchase. ONLY LOOK AT LOCAL DEALS, which means no shipping.
 
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thanks so much for answering my questions!

no I do not have a mixer but I want to get the firestudio, won't I just be able to monitor from the recorder or even the firestudio itself?

I need 8 tracks.
 
iivanov88 said:
thanks so much for answering my questions!

no I do not have a mixer but I want to get the firestudio, won't I just be able to monitor from the recorder or even the firestudio itself?

I need 8 tracks.
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So in other words, he'll be wanting 16.:p:D
 
iivanov88 said:
thanks so much for answering my questions!

no I do not have a mixer but I want to get the firestudio, won't I just be able to monitor from the recorder or even the firestudio itself?

I need 8 tracks.
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You won't be able to monitor from the recorder unless it has a headphones out.
I'm not familiar with the firestudio so I can't comment.

Have you decided whether you want cassette or open reel?

For cassette you have several 8 track options, including TASCAM 488, 688 (which are an all in one recorder / mixer solutions) and the 238, which is just a stand alone 8 track recorder. I've heard some great recordings made on these but I personally would not want to deal with more than 4 tracks on cassette (but that doesn't interest you).

For open reel (for around or even under your budget), I'd look for a TASCAM 38, 48, 58, TSR-8 and even an old TEAC 80-8 (as long as you don't pay more than 300 for one and are able to personally verify functionality and wear on the machine). That goes for all of the other recorders as well. You want to verify that all is good and well, including head wear.

Another favorite is the TASCAM 388. Don't overlook it either. It's a total studio, open reel / mixer all in one. Good product.

If you happen on an Otari MX5050 8 track then grab it if it's clean and low use.

For all of the above recorders, CONDITION AND LOCAL PICKUP SHOULD BE YOUR PRIORITY.
 
the firestudio has headphone out so I can monitor through there.

what I'm still trying to figure out is whether the firestudio in reality still does ad/da in standalone mode. this would be a shame. could anyone confirm this?
 
+ on everything cjacek says, especially about local buys. I say go all the way to open reel and skip the cassette formats though, you are better off with 24-bit digital than cassette.

you don't need the converters on the firestudio, though you do need the outboard pres. You might be able to use them, but its probably not the best way to go.

I tried using outboard pres and an underpowered mixer with an open reel deck. its a big hassle. you're better off getting a mixer to match the deck. or look for a 388 since it has the built in mixer.

I'm a big fun of digital/analog hybrid set ups, although I'm probably in the minority on this board. IMO, tracking stuff like drums and vocals to tape imparts sonic qualities that are evident even after transfer to digital. but then editing and mixing those tracks in a DAW has its own advantages too, so I try to get the best of both worlds and it works for me...

there are lots of hidden costs with analog. you can probably find a deck in nice shape in your price range, but you gotta get tape, demagger, cabling, mixer, etc... if you REALLY get into it then you gotta get the test tapes and o-scopes and a multimeter, then you start buying outboard comps, EQs, etc...

analog is definitely alot of fun though. buy a deck and you'll be the coolest kid on your block.
 
Hey check out the mackie Onyx boards if you are looking for an interface. I use an Onyx 1620 as a front end for my 8 track 1/2" and it doubles as a digital interface to my DAW running Reaper. Its basically a mixer that has an optional Firewire card that you can plug into your PC. nice pres on the mackie Onyx stuff, good monitoring, nice EQ section...
 
thanks for the reply!

the reason I want to get the firestudio is that someone is selling it for 500 (a steal!)

now I am looking at this Onyx 1620. Only 800 bucks? That actually seems very reasonable. I didn't even dream of getting a mixer but for saving up another 400 dollars I could have this thing. doesn't look like it has adat or spdif, does it? I don't know what I would need more than 8 pres for but you never know. I doubt their absence would affect my getting it anyway.

and I really can't get rid of this distrust for presonus from the back of my mind.
 
are you looking at the mixer for $800? because the FW adapter is a couple hundred more on top of that.

It has a little brother too, the 1220, with only 4 channel strips instead of 8 and only one parametric EQ (1620 has a pair). I actually started out with the 1220 a few years back and I got a great deal on it (mixer for $430 plus FW adapter for free). So depending on what you record, you might be able to get away with a 1220. I needed more channels to record drums/guitar/vox (basically as much as possible at once) so I upgraded.

Plus, it lets you stream channels to DAW, so it was great for the hybrid setup i was trying to put together. the 1220 does like 16 channels at 24-bit 96KHz (plenty for 1/2" 8 track) the 1620 does even more...

doesn't have adat or spdif.

Onyx might be what you need. just thought I would suggest it. I think there may even be more products like this on the market now, although I think this was the first of its kind...

what kind of stuff do you record? full bands or what?
 
iivanov88 said:
the reason I want to get the firestudio is that someone is selling it for 500 (a steal!)
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You could get so much more (and I mean sooooo much more) for that kind of money if you look at older analogue mixers, ones from TASCAM, for example, which would be ideal, if you intend to buy a stand alone recorder.
 
cjacek said:
You could get so much more (and I mean sooooo much more) for that kind of money if you look at older analogue mixers, ones from TASCAM, for example, which would be ideal, if you intend to buy a stand alone recorder.
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yeah but I don't want an analog mixer, I want one that is both digital and analog.
 
you mean you want an interface, right? a "digital mixer" is not necessarily the same thing.

if you wanted to get something like an older Tascam mixer, you can get a cheaper interface, something like a Delta 1010LT... there are lots of options. try to figure out what you want to before you start buying stuff.
 
what I need is a mixer/interface with 8 great pre's and 8 outs that can be ad/da converted and also not converted (just standalone analog), and firewire. I have an intel imac so the delta won't work.

basically, I want to keep the analog option open so that I can have 8 channels running io with no conversion but still have an interface, which I already wanted to get for a while. I want to use the 8 pres to record purely digital into the daw and also purely analog into a reel to reel or whatever I will decide.

the mackie seems like a good solution for me as I don't think I will be able to find an alternative with the apparently amazing pre's that it is claimed to have. the only possible problem: I have heard about this inability to run the onboard eq, mute, pan, fade stuff pre firewire but is there really an advantage to doing that if I can just do it in the software? and if I do some stuff on analog, this stuff will work for that, right?
 
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