regebro
Insane Genious!
It's not you. It's your speakers.
N
notCardio
I walk the line
Thanks, Regebro! I hope you're right.
O
ozraves
New member
One of the top mic pre designers had this to say about my mp3 comparison:
***
A bit late in posting my thoughts but the DI tracks I could take either, no major sonic difference that would make me say "buy that instead". The vocal takes however have marked differences. What jumps out for me is the first take definetly sounds "closer". Wether this is varying mic position or the attributes of the preamp concerned is hard to say. (Oz says: About half of it was the proximity. So I rerecorded the takes. The VTB1 does sound closer even when the distance to the mic is strictly controlled.) I would hazard a guess that you may have been a bit closer to the mic on take 1? Track one is definitely slightly louder.
My pick ? well on the strength of what I heard, if I was sitting in a studio and heard that difference, I would go with the pre on vocal track 1 (the VTB1 on the tracks he listened to).
By the way, I listened to it on a mono speaker, much easy to hear differences than listening on two speakers.
A good test would be to get hold of a preamp considered to be top end and include 3 tracks in the test. This way you have some sort of reference.
***
I tend to agree with him about having a "top end" pre but I could not locate one last weekend that was available to use.
Mono through one speaker gives you a better idea of the differences.
***
A bit late in posting my thoughts but the DI tracks I could take either, no major sonic difference that would make me say "buy that instead". The vocal takes however have marked differences. What jumps out for me is the first take definetly sounds "closer". Wether this is varying mic position or the attributes of the preamp concerned is hard to say. (Oz says: About half of it was the proximity. So I rerecorded the takes. The VTB1 does sound closer even when the distance to the mic is strictly controlled.) I would hazard a guess that you may have been a bit closer to the mic on take 1? Track one is definitely slightly louder.
My pick ? well on the strength of what I heard, if I was sitting in a studio and heard that difference, I would go with the pre on vocal track 1 (the VTB1 on the tracks he listened to).
By the way, I listened to it on a mono speaker, much easy to hear differences than listening on two speakers.
A good test would be to get hold of a preamp considered to be top end and include 3 tracks in the test. This way you have some sort of reference.
***
I tend to agree with him about having a "top end" pre but I could not locate one last weekend that was available to use.
Mono through one speaker gives you a better idea of the differences.
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
ozraves said:
Just so everyone knows, the new Studio Projects Sessions CD for the B Series will be out soon. We used only the B Series mics, but we used a few really good Preamps like the Neve 1072, API, Focusrite Red, Trident "A" Range, and a VTB-1 both is the SS mode and the tube blend mode.
So, like the other C Series Sessions CD we did, it is a mic demo for the B1, B3, and TB1 on a few real nice mic amps. This CD will be done in about 4 weeks or so, and like always, it will be for free. Those who got the first ones know how good this CD was.
You can start your requests for them by e-mailing me at alan@pmiaudio.com Be sure to send me your address and we will mail them as soon as we get them. Please, no international address. The International distributors will have them so go to the Studio Projects web site, find your closest distributor and ask them for it. I will send them all units when I get them.
Alan Hyatt
C
chessrock
Banned
Some more findings after loading the mp3's up in Sound Forge . . .
The VTB-1 track was recorded about 3 db louder . . . peeking at around -9 and hovering mostly around -15. The AB peeks at around -12 and hovers mostly around -10 or so.
Looking at the two with the spectrum analyzer shows everything from 200 hz on down is more exaggerated on the VTB-1, by about the same 3 db. That's why it sounds closer -- the bass is more exaggerated, and thus more proximity effect.
I played around with the EQ by shelving everything from 200 hz on down about 3 db with the Waves REQ on the VTB1 sample so they match-up better EQ-wise. I also tried it the other way by boosting the bass on the AB sample.
I then cheated the AB sample up so they're at roughly the same volume, and compared them again.
They sound much closer to each other, now. The "closeness" of the VTB1 is strictly attributable to it's exaggerated bass response (from 200 hz on down), which translates as greater proximity effect.
This could be good or bad.
If I had a mix with the AB sample in it, I'd probably knock off the added bass so as not to muddy things up. Male vocals should peak at around 300-500 hz . . . not 126 hz, as it did in the vtb1 sample. However, if I were doing a voiceover piece, I'd go with the vtb1 sample as is sans tweaking.
Still, there's something a little smoother about the VTB1 sample. I think it clearly beats the Audio Buddy sample based on this sound bit. The difference in quality could be likened to the difference between an Audio Buddy to a DMP3 (or a Mackie to a Mindprint) sample. I like it better . . . which is good, because it was recorded with a more expensive pre.
Where the difference is most evident is on the part where he sings "seven - one" it sounds noticeably thinner on the AB sample. If this was a performance issue (like maybe the singer moved at that point), then I guess my theory is blown to hell, and the two are basically the same.
Anyway, my guess is the VTB1 would compare favorably to a DMP3 or a Mindprint (up to now, my two favorite budget pres), which is a big compliment to the VTB1. I'd love to get a hold of a VTB1 to do a direct comparison between it, mindprint, dmp3, mackie, and Joemeek (yea, I know - my gear list is a whos-who of cheap pres).
The VTB-1 track was recorded about 3 db louder . . . peeking at around -9 and hovering mostly around -15. The AB peeks at around -12 and hovers mostly around -10 or so.
Looking at the two with the spectrum analyzer shows everything from 200 hz on down is more exaggerated on the VTB-1, by about the same 3 db. That's why it sounds closer -- the bass is more exaggerated, and thus more proximity effect.
I played around with the EQ by shelving everything from 200 hz on down about 3 db with the Waves REQ on the VTB1 sample so they match-up better EQ-wise. I also tried it the other way by boosting the bass on the AB sample.
I then cheated the AB sample up so they're at roughly the same volume, and compared them again.
They sound much closer to each other, now. The "closeness" of the VTB1 is strictly attributable to it's exaggerated bass response (from 200 hz on down), which translates as greater proximity effect.
This could be good or bad.
If I had a mix with the AB sample in it, I'd probably knock off the added bass so as not to muddy things up. Male vocals should peak at around 300-500 hz . . . not 126 hz, as it did in the vtb1 sample. However, if I were doing a voiceover piece, I'd go with the vtb1 sample as is sans tweaking.
Still, there's something a little smoother about the VTB1 sample. I think it clearly beats the Audio Buddy sample based on this sound bit. The difference in quality could be likened to the difference between an Audio Buddy to a DMP3 (or a Mackie to a Mindprint) sample. I like it better . . . which is good, because it was recorded with a more expensive pre.
Where the difference is most evident is on the part where he sings "seven - one" it sounds noticeably thinner on the AB sample. If this was a performance issue (like maybe the singer moved at that point), then I guess my theory is blown to hell, and the two are basically the same.
Anyway, my guess is the VTB1 would compare favorably to a DMP3 or a Mindprint (up to now, my two favorite budget pres), which is a big compliment to the VTB1. I'd love to get a hold of a VTB1 to do a direct comparison between it, mindprint, dmp3, mackie, and Joemeek (yea, I know - my gear list is a whos-who of cheap pres).
Last edited:
O
ozraves
New member
chessrock,
great work. you did something we thought about and suspected ourselves but didn't make it around to doing. i doubt we would have put it all together as well as you have. i'm very impressed.
i edited my online review as your little experiment confirmed something i'd suspected. thanks so much.
steve
http://www.piemusic.com
great work. you did something we thought about and suspected ourselves but didn't make it around to doing. i doubt we would have put it all together as well as you have. i'm very impressed.
i edited my online review as your little experiment confirmed something i'd suspected. thanks so much.
steve
http://www.piemusic.com
Last edited:
C
chessrock
Banned
This kind of stuff is fun.
J
jeronimo
New member
Uhh hu h! Thanks a lot Steve!!!! I'm downloading my samples right now and I'll post back my impressions!!!!
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
O
ozraves
New member
chessrock said:
And addicting...
O
ozraves
New member
Since my review is up and since Harvey Gerst was so kind as to let me post his as well, I was going take down the mp3 samples. Anyone want me to keep these up awhile longer?
The reviews are at:
http://www.piemusic.com/mp/main.html
I also have a new review posted on the M-Audio Studiophile SP-8B monitors.
Steve
http://www.piemusic.com
The reviews are at:
http://www.piemusic.com/mp/main.html
I also have a new review posted on the M-Audio Studiophile SP-8B monitors.
Steve
http://www.piemusic.com