VSTi Orchestra

[TelePaul]

Hey all. I was wondering if someone could point out some general tips when using a vsti orchestra. I downloaded Synfuls demo and love the quality of the samples, but I am having trouble arranging them. The time is takes for a sample to start - I don't mean latency, I mean the lack of attack - makes it hard to arrange melodic pieces with more than a few notes per bar. Any thoughts?

 

[TelePaul]

Oh my tone wheel was on full. But I'm still having trouble with the attack and decay.

 

[DavidK]

Hey all. I was wondering if someone could point out some general tips when using a vsti orchestra. I downloaded Synfuls demo and love the quality of the samples, but I am having trouble arranging them. The time is takes for a sample to start - I don't mean latency, I mean the lack of attack - makes it hard to arrange melodic pieces with more than a few notes per bar. Any thoughts?

Well, its one of the limitations of synful. Most samples/synths have dozens of patches with varying attacks. Messing with it helps, and the delay/expression button does some neat stuff. In general, the strings are best for slow, sustained stuff and not fast stuff.

You picked up on the big problem of synful, the attacks. The sounds are ok, although there is no variation and they get old. The bassoons are good, the flute is good, the oboes, low brass stink. The horns are good. The strings are mixed, they work with some tunes and not with others.

Basically, if you layer it with other stuff it will help. The more dense the piece, the less the listener is focusing on one particular sound. Its better for backing tracks than solo stuff. If you stick a synful orchestra behind some rock tracks it will sound much better than alone.

 

[TelePaul]

Well, its one of the limitations of synful. Most samples/synths have dozens of patches with varying attacks. Messing with it helps, and the delay/expression button does some neat stuff. In general, the strings are best for slow, sustained stuff and not fast stuff.

You picked up on the big problem of synful, the attacks. The sounds are ok, although there is no variation and they get old. The bassoons are good, the flute is good, the oboes, low brass stink. The horns are good. The strings are mixed, they work with some tunes and not with others.

Basically, if you layer it with other stuff it will help. The more dense the piece, the less the listener is focusing on one particular sound. Its better for backing tracks than solo stuff. If you stick a synful orchestra behind some rock tracks it will sound much better than alone.

Thanks alot David! I posted this before I had a crack at Pachelbel. I hear what you're saying, thanks for the tip. Can I ask what Orchestral software you use?

 

[DavidK]

Thanks alot David! I posted this before I had a crack at Pachelbel. I hear what you're saying, thanks for the tip. Can I ask what Orchestral software you use?

I mainly use a hardware synth, Roland Jv1010. I have a few softsynths for non-classical (Prophet, DX7). I am getting another synth at the end of the month, maybe one of the smaller motifs. I use synful for a few patches but not that much. As you may find, its noisy a bit.

I dont like softsynths. Just a preference since I have been working with hardware since pre-midi times. On my last CD, there are some samples from QuantumLeap East/West that my friend did and they kick ass. I think they are expensive, they sound it.

The key for me is finding exactly what is easy to emulate and what not. I tend to favor certain patches that normally I might not put in a piece. Pipe Organ for example, the Roland has a great one. I can never find a good oboe. Granted, I am a symphony violinist and I know the instruments real well

One thing I try to do: never use an instrument too long. If you hear a flute patch you say "Thats a flute". If you hear it for a long time you say "Thats a keyboard". I also have the luxury of putting real violins on all my pieces. When you hear my stuff before the violins are recorded it sounds real midi. Adding 32 violins changes things.

Since you dont have 32 violins , its good to find SOME real instrument, maybe voice or guitar or anything, to make it not sound synthy. I think of my stuff as a hybrid of real and illusion. For low strings, I have several patches I use that I mix together. In general, I get to know my synths inside out and find out exactly which patches work. I have the Roland down cold, it has about 30 patches I rely on all the time. Unfortunately, I rely on them all the time so my stuff tends to sound the same, which is why I am breaking down and buying another keyboard. I would rather have lots of mid-priced synths (and soft-synths) than one expensive one. After a while, each machine or softsynth sounds the same, so having several synths at your disposal is crucial. I am out of inspiration now, another reason I am getting another one. When I first get one I can just sit down and press record and every new patch gives me an idea. I am out of ideas, hold me.

Feel free to ask me anything else, the orchestra stuff is my specialty.

 

[DavidK]

Oh, one thing I forgot:

In synful, I have to constantly automate the mix. Strings go up and down in volume constantly, they taper off at the ends of long notes. Synful tends to stay at full volume throughout the note, so I have to automate a decrescendo in Sonar. Doing this is a crucial part of making it sound good. The reason I say this is that I just listened to one of my tracks, and one cello part really stuck out because it sustained too long.

 

[TelePaul]

Oh, one thing I forgot:

In synful, I have to constantly automate the mix. Strings go up and down in volume constantly, they taper off at the ends of long notes. Synful tends to stay at full volume throughout the note, so I have to automate a decrescendo in Sonar. Doing this is a crucial part of making it sound good. The reason I say this is that I just listened to one of my tracks, and one cello part really stuck out because it sustained too long.

Oh cool. Yeah it's a cool program, but I think I'll look at upgrading to something a little more comprehensive regarding patches. The change in volume and attack and decay would really bug me. I did use them in a folkish based song like you said, with what I consider to be good results. It'll be in the MP3 clinic soon. Thanks again for all your help David.

 

[DavidK]

Oh cool. Yeah it's a cool program, but I think I'll look at upgrading to something a little more comprehensive regarding patches. The change in volume and attack and decay would really bug me. I did use them in a folkish based song like you said, with what I consider to be good results. It'll be in the MP3 clinic soon. Thanks again for all your help David.

This is probably wise. Synful is not quite there yet. Its a good program with some good sounds, but after a while you realize that it has some serious flaws.

 

[marshall409]

well....

synful was the first thing i tried for strings ever. im still only working on my first song with it, but i plugged it in to some pre made midis and found it sounded awesome. the tetris theme song sounded particularly cool played by a full orchestra i dont have room for a very big sample library right now, but i also am looking for something a little better.

Adam

 

[beezelbubba]

Holy shit, what a killer instrument!
I wish I had $500 bucks to spare!