Vst pre-amps?

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Does anyone who is recording digitally into a USB interface use a pre-amp plug? I realize the interface contains a pre-amp, though probably not the highest quality for the cheaper ones. I've come across a few online while researching "free vsts", but they're mostly a few bucks..so i haven't paid for any...yet. Klangenheim makes one, and I use a couple of their free plugs. Anyways, just wondering if something like SDRR Overview might give a warmer sound to rock vocals.

Anyone use something like this? thanks
 
First of all, the preamps in even lower-priced interfaces nowadays are actually pretty damn good at their intended function. Clean, quiet, flat gain is extremely easy and cheap nowadays. All of the design work is long since done, the parts have been built and tested and updated and optimized and are now pretty much mass market commodities.

The things that people like about vintage and boutique pre-amps are the ways that they fail to be flat and clean. A VST preamp simulation really is just a series of filters and distorters. Slap it on and it sounds like that. You can change the gain at some stage in that chain with the knob they give you, but that's about it. You usually can't affect the position or depth of any of the filters. If you don't like what it does - even if it's really close a tiny tweak (of a knob they don't give you) could make it perfect, you have to just unload it and try the next one. It's kind of a brilliant marketing strategy. ;)

I personally prefer to make my own chain of filters and distorters so that I have more control of more of the subtle parameters involved. Maybe it's just my nature, maybe I don't have enough good preamp plugs, but I can't ever find the right one, and I don't really care to waste my time looking when I can hear what I need, and know how to get there with more general tools.
 
ashcat_lt said:
...I don't really care to waste my time looking when I can hear what I need, and know how to get there with more general tools.
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What are some examples of things you hear that need fixing, and what tools have you used to get that done?
 
I use the Boot EQ MkII preamp (I disable the EQ side of it), usually if I find my vocal a little more nasal than usual. Have also used the Line 6 PodFarm preamps on occasion, if I'm looking for a particular sound.
 
mjbphotos said:
I use the Boot EQ MkII preamp (I disable the EQ side of it. Have also used the Line 6 PodFarm preamps on occasion, if I'm looking for a particular sound.
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on the 2 bus or as a track insert? I see it's free...i'll download and play with it this week. thanks!
 
andrushkiwt said:
What are some examples of things you hear that need fixing, and what tools have you used to get that done?
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It's too clean and maybe a touch too fast, and needs a touch oomph in the bottom, and a tiny peak in the spitzone... I usually use ReaEQ and a couple of JS plugs that estimate diode clipping and slew rate limiting. Sometimes several of each. Sometimes before or after other processing like ReaComp. Sometimes on the track and on the bus and on the master. For me it's not so much about fooling anybody into thinking its analog, but that those analog things sound good for a reason, and if you don't get that somewhere, you may not be best pleased.

Then people will say "why not get it at the source?" Actually use a preamp that sounds the way you want it to begin with. Yep. That costs more and takes up a bit more space. Especially if you want to have a decent amount of variety. Plus, that's only the one stage. Good mix engineers know that most of the time several compressors each doing a little can work a lot better than one trying to do too much. Saturation is very much the same.

And that is the big trap of these preamp sims. You slap it on and expect to hear it working, so you crank it up until you do, and it probably sounds pretty awesome for a while. Then you come back tomorrow and realize that it's just blown out and awful.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Does anyone who is recording digitally into a USB interface use a pre-amp plug? I realize the interface contains a pre-amp, though probably not the highest quality for the cheaper ones. I've come across a few online while researching "free vsts", but they're mostly a few bucks..so i haven't paid for any...yet. Klangenheim makes one, and I use a couple of their free plugs. Anyways, just wondering if something like SDRR Overview might give a warmer sound to rock vocals.

Anyone use something like this? thanks
Click to expand...

Demo them first. But yes, I use them, and yes again, it WILL change your sound. That klanghelm one isn't just a pre though, it's a hybrid distortion unit (though in a certain sense that what all preamp sims are). Keep in mind this will never replace having a good pre. Without getting into a bi--- fest about which pre is better, there are two categories of Pres. Consumer stuff, and pro stuff. If you're using consumer stuff, with entry level monitors, these plugs won't do you much good. Here's why

-if your mic and pre are too cheap, they're not going to pick up anything the pre amp sim plugin will enhance. You can't cut and boost frequencies that aren't there. Similarly, you won't be able to add harmonic content and what not, if your mic and pre are too weak to get a sufficient amount of information into the computer in the first place.

-low end monitors do a poor job reflecting subtle but often important changes in the harmonic content added by these types of plugs. Demo it first. If you can't hear it doing anything, then it's probably because of a weak link in your chain.

Demo the waves Redd, the Kramer HLS (helios), and the Scheps. Just open up the plug and sit it on a track. If you can't hear what its doing, then you need to invest in better monitors or a better mic first.
 
ashcat_lt said:
It's too clean and maybe a touch too fast, and needs a touch oomph in the bottom, and a tiny peak in the spitzone... I usually use ReaEQ and a couple of JS plugs that estimate diode clipping and slew rate limiting. Sometimes several of each. Sometimes before or after other processing like ReaComp. Sometimes on the track and on the bus and on the master. For me it's not so much about fooling anybody into thinking its analog, but that those analog things sound good for a reason, and if you don't get that somewhere, you may not be best pleased.

Then people will say "why not get it at the source?" Actually use a preamp that sounds the way you want it to begin with. Yep. That costs more and takes up a bit more space. Especially if you want to have a decent amount of variety. Plus, that's only the one stage. Good mix engineers know that most of the time several compressors each doing a little can work a lot better than one trying to do too much. Saturation is very much the same.

And that is the big trap of these preamp sims. You slap it on and expect to hear it working, so you crank it up until you do, and it probably sounds pretty awesome for a while. Then you come back tomorrow and realize that it's just blown out and awful.
Click to expand...

I've been using a few compressors, when needed, instead of one doing it all. I'm liking the results much better, especially when throwing in a different brand. I'll let the stock comp take off 2-3db's and give an output of +2db, then use a 3rd party for another 2-3dbs reduction and gain. I'm noticing that little flavor each gives.
 
jkuehlin said:
-if your mic and pre are too cheap, they're not going to pick up anything the pre amp sim plugin will enhance. You can't cut and boost frequencies that aren't there. Similarly, you won't be able to add harmonic content and what not, if your mic and pre are too weak to get a sufficient amount of information into the computer in the first place.
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Good point. If that's where the bread and butter of pre-amps are, then yeah I understand that.
 
andrushkiwt said:
I've been using a few compressors, when needed, instead of one doing it all. I'm liking the results much better, especially when throwing in a different brand. I'll let the stock comp take off 2-3db's and give an output of +2db, then use a 3rd party for another 2-3dbs reduction and gain. I'm noticing that little flavor each gives.
Click to expand...

Well, then try the SDRR and let us know what you think!
 
I've tried some and they're okay to add effect but felt a bit flat. I think a better buy would be saving that money for a good single channel preamp.
 
ashcat_lt said:
But I disagree with this. Low end preamps don't have to suck nowadays and most of them don't.
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I don't think low end preamps suck at all and use one, but imo they lack color/even-order harmonics and are noiser when pushed compared to a good 1 channel preamp (tube or ss). It's really about how anal someone wants to get. But I think spending money on a vst is a waste because there is no resale value. So a good 1 channel makes more sense as a place to park money because you can color to taste, get less noise at higher gain, and have a great DI box. Then if you need to resell it you also have an item that retains value. You can get good recordings on budget preamps (and visa versa), though, so a new preamp should probably be a last upgrade.
 
But that's my point. I can get color elsewhere. I don't fuck with color compressors either. Color is distortion and EQ over which you usually get no control. If you start with a clean, flat source, you can use simple tools to add exactly what you want rather than just taking what you get.
 
ashcat_lt said:
But that's my point. I can get color elsewhere. I don't fuck with color compressors either. Color is distortion and EQ over which you usually get no control. If you start with a clean, flat source, you can use simple tools to add exactly what you want rather than just taking what you get.
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I don't know what your setup is, but can you record something on a nice tube preamp and then record something else on a cheap preamp and use just EQ/distortion to clone the first one? I'd like to hear that. I'm not being a jerk I really would like to hear it b/c then I could cross off some preamps on my wish list.
 
Density Mk III was free when I downloaded it and is a pretty nice compressor.
My go to on a "preamp" is Pulveriser, but it's an RE, so if you don't use Reason it isn't for you.
In reason I use a lot of a C1-L1 clone. If you can find one like this one you might like it too.
 
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