Vocals in a dense mix

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frankthetank727

New member
Hello, I have been trying to mix a very dense song with female vocals and instrumentation consisting of acoustic guitar, piano, drums (with mallets), bass, and a small synth part. The problem is that I cannot seem to get the vocals to sit the way I want into the mix. The vocal itself sounds great to me, its clean and clear, but I have tried adding more reverb and adjusting volume, compression, etc and it just is not where I think I want it to be. I know alot of people use negative EQ on the other tracks to make the vocals sit in, but I was having some trouble with this. When you notch frequencies out to make room for vocals, would you notch that frequency out of every other track? or just the guitars? It's just been tough with such a busy track for me to find the frequencies that will allow the vocals to sit in the right. Any kind of suggestions would be helpful, thanks
 
frankthetank727 said:
Hello, I have been trying to mix a very dense song with female vocals and instrumentation consisting of acoustic guitar, piano, drums (with mallets), bass, and a small synth part. The problem is that I cannot seem to get the vocals to sit the way I want into the mix. The vocal itself sounds great to me, its clean and clear, but I have tried adding more reverb and adjusting volume, compression, etc and it just is not where I think I want it to be. I know alot of people use negative EQ on the other tracks to make the vocals sit in, but I was having some trouble with this. When you notch frequencies out to make room for vocals, would you notch that frequency out of every other track? or just the guitars? It's just been tough with such a busy track for me to find the frequencies that will allow the vocals to sit in the right. Any kind of suggestions would be helpful, thanks
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Try starting with the vocal and building the mix around it.
 
Panning is your friend. The only thing I pan *dead center* are my vocals and lead lines. Even things like snare, kick and bass guitar are placed slightly off-center to leave a small space just for vocals.

Levels of tracks are also key. Getting the right balance can make a huge difference in how far out front or buried something is.

Then there's the dry/wet relationship between tracks. How much you use will help further define depth.

Finally it's EQ...though I've never EQ'd in order just to get something out of the way of another sound/track...rather I EQ for tonal balance of the whole mix.

It would help us to hear what you have....
 
I agree with above panning creates space. I do usually have my kick\snare\bass\LV pretty much up the middle everything else panned hard. Drum overheads, guitars, keys etc..Even back up vocals panned sometimes.

I try to get my kick and bass to be heard independently and sometimes the snare fights with the lead vocal a bit I find its usually a volume thing maybe cutting where the vocal is. A tactic is to get the vocals sounding good with the drums.

I always think of the mix in Left to Right, Up and Down-volume and then EQ in the mix. Sometimes when a track sounds awesome solo'd it doesn't always work out well in the mix

Reverb sometimes is the enemy of space. Tracks with reverb can take up too much space. I would turn off all of my effects and see if you can hear things clearer then. Then fatten things from there.

I also always try to get things unboxy first--but not too much. If you solo your tracks and things are boxy. cutting around 300 can unbox things a great deal but can make them thin. Some things may need to be shelved in the low end like guitars low mids can also be a problem in stereo heavy gtrs.

Grouping things always helps to, drums, gtrs, vox, back vox, bass, etc.. that way you can see sometimes easily see what is cloudy by muting individual groups.

notching is something that I rarely do, i usually don't have to but if you take you gtr group, and vocal group, boost a frequency in the gtr that sounds like its where you vocals need to be, notch the group and see.

Dense is good, but dense and open is better ..
 
Also think about the arrangement

1) Does all of that instrumentation really need to play at the same time as the vocals

2) If it simply must be all going on at the same time can you revoice the instruments so they are playing in different registers from the vocal rather than directly competing with them

The first scenario can be very easily achieved with track mutes
The second would require re tracking but if the songs worth it then ......
 
Maybe the issue is actually the arrangement. Sometimes the problem is that a track is too "busy" as you say with no regard for how those things fit together.

But, as the guys above have said, if you have to mix it as it is, EQ, Pan, and effect. Subtle delays can also help to give separation to various things like vocals.
 
9 times out of 10 if I can't get a vocal to sit right it is because everything else is too loud. maybe lower the overall volume and push the compressed vocal up. I also love using a good super fast comp (1176, distressor) to hype the vocals and get the dynamics even so I can push the volume without peaking. I don't know, this is just my experience.
 
My recommendation is to highpass and lowpass most of the instruments then see if vocal will fit in mix better...use a frequency chart to see where you should remove some lows and highs.

Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network

Example in chart for guitar...I would highpass (remove lows) up to 70 or 80 hz...then lowpass (remove highs) around the 5k mark...sometimes I even lowpass guitars as much as 1K depending on the sound you want...once you start doing the high and lowpass thing the vocals start sitting better in the mix.

What eq plugin are you using for vocals?...here is a free one that sounds really nice on vocals...try it out...its called thriller eq.

PHOENIXINFLIGHT
 
frankthetank727 said:
I cannot seem to get the vocals to sit the way I want into the mix.
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Not enough information here. In what way don't the vocals sit in the mix? Do they sound too bassy? Are they stepping on the guitars or piano?

My GUESS would be that the acoutic guitar (and to a lesser degree, the piano) need to have some low end cut away. Try a HPF and lose everything below 250hz. The only time I don't use eq on acoustic guitar is when it is a solo guitar/vocal. It is likely the midrange is getting crowded.
 
Supercreep said:
Not enough information here. In what way don't the vocals sit in the mix? Do they sound too bassy? Are they stepping on the guitars or piano?

My GUESS would be that the acoutic guitar (and to a lesser degree, the piano) need to have some low end cut away. Try a HPF and lose everything below 250hz. The only time I don't use eq on acoustic guitar is when it is a solo guitar/vocal. It is likely the midrange is getting crowded.
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Sorry I should have said more on that. It really just feels like the vocals are separate from everything else. I have a feeling that rolling off the highs will help. Thanks though!
 
If everything else fails, try making a stereo mix without vocals. Then set up a side chain ducking on the stereo mix so that every time the vocal appears the stereo mix ducks a dB or 2. If it works render this to a new stereo track as mix with vocals.

I just realised that I should explain ducking for those that don't know, ducking is when you set up a compressor on a signal so that when another source, for example vocal or spoken word appears, the original signal volume is reduced. It is used in radio when spoken word happens over music.

Alan.
 
Try sending everything except the vocals to a bus and compress a little. Then compress your master with the vocals. Sometimes it works, some times it doesn't.
 
jdutchak91 said:
Turn all the other tracks down.
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+1

You could also try routing everything but the vocals to a separate bus and inserting a mild smile parametric on the low mids, maybe 300, 350, 450. Wide Q, not too deep. Just scoop a bit of everything except the vocal and I bet the vocal's easier to hear. Then see how much of that scoop you can add back in before the vocal starts disappearing again. :D
 
I have a good idea of what you mean when something doesn't sit well. it's not that its too quiet or too loud, it just doesnt stand out enough. Its usually because other instruments are fighting for the same frequencies as the vocals. Lets say you make a cut at 3.5K in the vocals, you could boost the guitar slightly at 3.5K. And if you have any added EQ in the vocals you could make slight cuts in the guitars at the same frequencies. Same with the kick and bass. Cause a mix isnt about how an instrument sounds soloed, but as a whole. So cutting out some frequencies that arent the main focus of an instrument can really help. Especially if you like how the rest of your mix sounds.

But i agree with the guy above me, If it isnt Kick or Bass put a HPF around 150-250 depending of the genre
 
Cutting the mids on the midrange instruments (which are competing in the frequency spectrum with the vocal) with EQ and SLIGHTLY boosting the mids on the vocal will help separate them.
 
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