Vocals Distorting but No Red Light

I

idoteech

New member
I am in the process of recording some vocals for my mom. We are having the problem of a raspy distorted sound when her dynamics increase; however I am seeing no clipping on the pre or the faders. I have tried every plug in possible. We have tried every volume level possible (without cutting them so low they are lost in the mix), and nothing seems to be helping. Here is what I am using:

Pro Tools LE MBox 2
MXL 990 through a ART Tube Pre
MXL 990 through a NADY Pre

I have tried her through both pre's. Any advice would be appreciated!

I am planning on trying a dynamic mic on her voice (SM58) to see if that helps at all. I've recorded my voice, and I have recorded on these mics several times and not had this problem, but the distortion appears on my voice also (not as bad).

I'm also looking into buying a good studio condenser (need for vocals only), but I want to make sure I spend my money on the right one. Looking to spend about $300.00.

Thanks for all the great advice.

Eva

www.myspace.com/evaglasscock
www.evaglasscock.com
 
Try the dynamic, that may solve your problem. I'd say some of your distortion might be coming from the toob circuit being pushed to hard but I'm not sure the nady has that. If you can try to post a clip, I own a 990 and it never distorts so I'm not sure it'd be the mic, but then if you meters aren't going nuts then you probably aren't clipping the converters either, weird. Also what do you want to use the new mic for? In that price range I'd honestly recommend an sm7, unless you absolutely want/need a condenser mic. If I could have done it over again I'd much rather have bought a shure sm7 over my groove tubes gt57. If you absolutely want a condenser I can sell you my 57 at a great price. :D
 
Have you tried actually listening to the output of the preamp directly? That would pretty quickly make it apparent where the signal is being distorted. It sounds right now like it very well may be a problem with the computer interface and not the microphone- just make sure before you throw away a perfectly good mic!

To answer your other question, I've gotten wonderful results using a Studio Projects C1 condenser mic, which I think is right now exactly 300 dollars new. There are actually a lot of claims circulating that it sounds just like a neumann U87. That sounds too good to be true to me (although I've never been lucky enough to use a U87) but I will say that it blows away my similarly priced M-AUDIO condenser.
 
idoteech said:
. We have tried every volume level possible (without cutting them so low they are lost in the mix)
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I'm not sure what you mean by that. The level you record at has nothing to do with turning it up or down in the mix. You could record at a lower level and still turn it up after.
 
bloomboy said:
Have you tried actually listening to the output of the preamp directly? That would pretty quickly make it apparent where the signal is being distorted. It sounds right now like it very well may be a problem with the computer interface and not the microphone- just make sure before you throw away a perfectly good mic!

To answer your other question, I've gotten wonderful results using a Studio Projects C1 condenser mic, which I think is right now exactly 300 dollars new. There are actually a lot of claims circulating that it sounds just like a neumann U87. That sounds too good to be true to me (although I've never been lucky enough to use a U87) but I will say that it blows away my similarly priced M-AUDIO condenser.
Click to expand...

There's many claims circulating that are similar to that. Though many attempts to get that u87 sound, all have failed. If you want a U87 sound, use it ;)
 
RAMI said:
I'm not sure what you mean by that. The level you record at has nothing to do with turning it up or down in the mix. You could record at a lower level and still turn it up after.
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yeah you can, and bring the noise with it too.

*check your cables
*reinstall drivers or get updated ones
*why are you using a nady pre vs the mbox one? I figure the mbox pre would sound better. what's your gains looking like?

well i read your post wrong, thought it said that you get distortion through out the recording.
 
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Patient Dreams said:
In my case it's mic proximity. To close to the mic will cause it to distort but not show up on the meters.
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this is what i think.

condensers are delicate to dynamics. back off the mic on the loud parts
 
Mindset said:
yeah you can, and bring the noise with it too.
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OK... let's all waste our time stating the obvious. :rolleyes:

I was simply making the point that what he said about recording levels shouldn't have anything to do with how loud he's able to get it in the mix.

I'll type slower next time.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I am going to first try running straight into the MBox to see if that helps. I think I may have found my problem. After checking my connections YET AGAIN, I see that I am running XLR from the preamp to the MBox. Wouldn't this mean that I am amplifying the signal twice? I'm sure this could be the culprit. If none of that (including distancing from the mic) doesn't help, I will try the SM58. I have two of those, so it won't be hard to plug one in.

You guys are the greatest!!! Thank you so much. I will post again when I find the solution.

Eva

www.myspace.com/evaglasscock
www.evaglasscock.com
 
idoteech said:
Thanks for all the advice. I am going to first try running straight into the MBox to see if that helps. I think I may have found my problem. After checking my connections YET AGAIN, I see that I am running XLR from the preamp to the MBox. Wouldn't this mean that I am amplifying the signal twice? I'm sure this could be the culprit. If none of that (including distancing from the mic) doesn't help, I will try the SM58. I have two of those, so it won't be hard to plug one in.

You guys are the greatest!!! Thank you so much. I will post again when I find the solution.

Eva

www.myspace.com/evaglasscock
www.evaglasscock.com
Click to expand...

Yes you are running through two pre-amps when you do it this way, you have to run the pre to a line in! XLR to 1/4" TRS plug
 
how would running through two preamps cause distortion? If anything, it should give you more clean headroom.

My guess is its the microphone clipping if you're really close to the diaphragm and singing very loudly. Its already been suggested, but try backing off the mic a bit.

Also, try to just turn your preamp gain down. How hot is your signal going to disk?
 
Hi_Flyer said:
how would running through two preamps cause distortion? If anything, it should give you more clean headroom.
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That would be because a preamp is biased to amplify a very small input signal, not a line level signal. So anytime you present a line level signal to a preamp input, you are overdriving the input before you even start to add any more gain.
 
even with proper gain-staging? I understand that may not be the case here though... But I'm sure I've heard of people intentionally doing this before.
 
Depending on the topology of the preamps in question, what type of coupling they use, etc., there are a number of reasons why this is generally a bad idea.
 
Well, I rerouted everything. Tried running the MXL straight into the MBOX but needs phantom power, so that won't work. I then ran line in from the Tube pre and it's much better. Any ideas on the max to set the output on the preamp to? I'm getting a pretty good signal, but it could be louder. I am still gonna try the SM58 for my mom's voice. It may just be a better sound.

So is the concensus that I not invest in a new mic. Again, I have the 2 MXL 990's. I want a warm sound. I'm gonna definitely sell the NADY pre. I don't think I need it. Any ideas on a good pre for about $100 or a $150?

Thanks again.
Eva
 
Hi_Flyer said:
even with proper gain-staging? I understand that may not be the case here though... But I'm sure I've heard of people intentionally doing this before.
Click to expand...
Some folks intentionally do this in order to acheive a special *desired* type of distortion or coloration, not for any kind of attempt at a clean, properly gained signal chain. But other than that, almost by definition, running two preamps in series is os difficult from a "proper" gain staging perspective. Consider the numbers:

Mic preamp inputs are designed to take electrical signals from microphones that typically range somehwere from 10mV to 100mV, with a very low impedance typically in the 45-300 ohm range. As such, these signals tend to run some 40-60dB or more (give or take) lower than standard line level. This is the amount of amplification that a mic preamp provides.

This would mean that staging the signal for a second preamp would mean having to pad the signal at the second pre's input some 40dB or more. Some pres have a 20dB pad available on them, but even then the signal will be running some 20dB or more hotter than the preamp really expects, often changing the tone of the amplificaton (hence the coloration mentioned earlier.) Without the pad, fuggedaboudit ;).

G.
 
idoteech said:
Well, I rerouted everything. Tried running the MXL straight into the MBOX but needs phantom power, so that won't work. I then ran line in from the Tube pre and it's much better. Any ideas on the max to set the output on the preamp to? I'm getting a pretty good signal, but it could be louder. I am still gonna try the SM58 for my mom's voice. It may just be a better sound.

So is the concensus that I not invest in a new mic. Again, I have the 2 MXL 990's. I want a warm sound. I'm gonna definitely sell the NADY pre. I don't think I need it. Any ideas on a good pre for about $100 or a $150?

Thanks again.
Eva
Click to expand...

As long as you're getting a good clean signal keep that and then turn it up after it's been recorded. It's better to give yourself headroom during the tracking stage so that you have the option to crank it up after the fact.
 
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