Vocal Recording Tricks?

  • Thread starter Thread starter westermane
  • Start date Start date
Dolemite said:


OK, so how do you deal with the phasing issues? Do you just reverse the phase of the doubled track or is it more complicated than that?
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Just adjust the delay time using a 1ms increment - sum to mono - listen full? natural? - good

You can reverse phase on problimatic tracks/
 
I double track my vocals then add the slightest shade of delay. Works for me.
 
Check the mix in mono Check the mix in mono. I've read it here a million times, but I'm not too sure why.
I understand how there could be phasing problems caused by doubling or delaying one track, then mixing them to mono, but Iv'e never heard a good explanation of how to identify these hobgoblins or what to do about them.

Is it something that needs to be developed through experience, or will the problems be blatantly obvious?

what if you delayed one channel, and got exactly the effect you wanted, then found phase cancellations in a mono exam of the mix? Do you have discard the idea altogether, or might you just adjust your delay time?

And who cares about how it sounds in mono, if you never intend to play the finished product in mono?


Twist
 
twist said:
Check the mix in mono Check the mix in mono. I've read it here a million times, but I'm not too sure why.


You dont have to sum to mono. You can also pan them both to the same part.


I understand how there could be phasing problems caused by doubling or delaying one track, then mixing them to mono, but Iv'e never heard a good explanation of how to identify these hobgoblins or what to do about them. Is it something that needs to be developed through experience, or will the problems be blatantly obvious?

Listen for a hollow or filtered or disapearing sound
Or phased sound or weak-thin sound.


what if you delayed one channel, and got exactly the effect you wanted, then found phase cancellations in a mono exam of the mix? Do you have discard the idea altogether, or might you just adjust your delay time?

There are a few solutions. Try the search button


And who cares about how it sounds in mono, if you never intend to play the finished product in mono?

Also in stereo you can have phase problems. If they are not panned hard left and right you might find tracks phasing. The closer you bring them together the more you'll get. Also you might hear phasing in a stereo mix when the signals combine in your listening room. But it is true that in stereo there are less problems.

As for the solutions.... I'll leave that to somebody with more energy........
Click to expand...
 
Twist, the reason for checking a mix in mono becomes very obvious once you do it. You have a mix up, you're happy with it, you switch to mono.............. and suddenly you find your vocal, your snare (just as examples) are.... gone. You can just hear them faintly in the background, they don't carry your mix like they should.
Often minute changes in effect settings are all that's needed to rectify the problem.
Why should you do it, as you don't listen in mono anyway? What you hear when you do your mix is - hopefully - a mix on a good system, in a good acoustic environment, with you sitting in or near the sweetspot (see note - later). In other words, an ideal situation. All systems sound different, listening environments are different, people are positioned differently towards the sound source. All these factors can enhance the problem you hear when you switch a mix to mono.

note: For the same reason its important to walk around when you do a mix, what does it sound like when you are not in the sweetspot? And to play things you've done on a boombox - with speakers close to each other some problems with panning and frequency cancellation can become immediately apparent.
 
hey guys!

Very good explanation, and excellent info as usual!

Thanks,
Twist
 
I love directx plugins. I chorus almost everything. Make the delay long enough so that you don't get a flange instead though.

mJ
Cix7 Records
 
Wouldn't the best idea be to vary the delay so as to make the second voice more "natural"?
That might be one advantage of the old analog tape delay (A.D.T.) .
Some processing devices offer simulated ADT.
I would suggest varying the effect in "real time".
When the old analog delays were adjusted, the tonal pitch would slide up and down slightly, which may have also added some realism.
I'd like to experiment with this idea more myself.
What if you combine this delay with a pitch adjuster?
What if the second voice is occassionally moved AHEAD of the first? Backwards delay?
I'm sure all of this has been done LOOOOOOOOONG ago.
 
there is a really wicked way of getting really full vocals.

when im mixing, i sometimes like to send a whole kit through a guitar processor to distort it, filter it and make it sound lo-fi.

if you've got a BOSS GX700, do this for wicked lead vocals...


on the console, have the vocal channel at it's normal position. send the channel to a processor like the boss.

run the processor in stereo...

set the center delay for 35ms.

set the left channel to delay +15% of the center

set the right to delay +75% of the center

pan accordingly, EQ each side slightly different, and check levels so it's equal in stereo.

the result....a totally IN YOUR FACE vocal. ive used this on lots of dance tracks, its amazing. im a very experimental producer, many a time ive run a snare through a pod or something strange. it always sounds good though:-)

e-mail me if you want the patch for the GX700. i just had a bunch of new TC Electronics stuff to try out, the M ONE, the TRIPLE C, Helicon Voice Prism and a protoype of another Finalizer 2496. should be an interesting night! GET THE VOICE PRISM...ITS AMAZING!
 
Tick/Millisecond Formula

Thanks for the idea of doubling tracks and adding delay! Works fabulously to fatten tracks and add aural space to my simple productions.

But is the following the simplest way to make the delay?

My Cakewalk software doesn't make it handy to shift a track by msecs. I have to use "ticks" (my ticks are set to beat/120. So I keep a calculator handy and translate thus: (60,000/bpm)/120 = msecs per tick.

Maybe I'll print out a table and paste it on the wall.
 
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