Vocal Recording Tricks?

  • Thread starter Thread starter westermane
  • Start date Start date
Ooops!

(didn't mean to bite so hard!) ;) Sue me, eh? I'm gonna get me a bunch of Behringer faceplates and slap 'em on all my gear, bet'cha you won't be so anxious for it then!!! :p
:D :D

Incidently - I wasn't trying to be contrary with you at all WC, I was really only trying to understand what you were saying... (although I guess sometimes my tone doesn't come across that way!) I'd certainly be up for a collaborative effort - if you can handle dealing with tracks and such being done thru a Mackie 8-buss!! ;)

But you're right, we're all a product of our various experiences... doesn't mean we're wrong, just different. Look at my opinion of Mackie vs. the rest of y'alls! :D

Hey, speaking of Behringer... with this pending China crisis, if it gets to the point of sanctions, what's going to happen to all the cheap Chinese-made gear in the American market? (Hmmm... maybe that's a good thing!) :D

Bruce
 
Westermane
30-40 ms is chorus range,anymore would be slapback.Less would be more flangy.
Lets say track 1 is dry and track 2 is wet.Pan 1 3/4 L and 2 3/4 R.Instant huge vocal (or guitar).
Go listen to old Beatle records and notice how George Martin had the lads actually double their lead vocal.You can hear the tiny variations between the two takes and guess what?IT SOUNDS GREAT!You ought to try it out yourself.Good luck.

Tom
 
Another way to fatten it up a little is to use a pitch effect which detunes it by a few cents (hundredths of a step). You then mix that back in. A cool effect, yet hardly noticeable unless you've used it -- then it jumps right out at you.
 
thanks!

Thanks for all the help guys! I think I'll first try the copy/paste/delay technique and see what kind of results I get. I also like the idea of trying it on some accoustic rhythm guitar parts. Thanks!
 
Cool tread!

First bit: for westermane, if you use rythm guitar in a supporting role on a track, try and play the part twice, and delay one of the two tracks. Sounds really cool.
I often delay the entire rythm guitar track.

Regarding doubling the vocals and the delay, you are all right, sorta :)
The timing of the delay depends - do you want the vocals to sound fat, or do you want it to sound as an effect? There is the answer to setting your delay time.

Next thing I will pose as a question;
Say you double your vocal track, and now you pan one left, the other right. What problems might you have created? There are 2 answers.

What creates a fat vocal track? Well, there are a number of options.

1) A bad one for you guys. A fat, round, full vocal track is more often than not the result of the microphone / pre amp combo. This is really where you can hear the difference in quality and........... this is where the "big bucks" kick in. Get a vintage U47 and a vintage Neve pre amp, or a more modern pre like an Amek 9098, and voila - all you have to to is shelf the lows somewhere suitable, and often cut the top end a bit as well, you're left with a full, fat sound. You will also have spend anything up to 12k. If you do that, you better be in a very good acoustically insulated space, or you will hear your neighbor accross the road flush the toilet as well.

2) The most common one. Use a good reverb, with a microsecond delay, and SPEND TIME on getting your reverb sound right. This is another money thing, the best reverbs are expensive. But, if you record on a DAW, there are some killer software ones. One trick if you are not entirely happy with your reverb sound is to dump it on another channel, so you can apply EQ to your reverb.

3) Another trick. Play your vocal track back through your monitors, place a mic in the sweet spot, and record the signal. Experiment with the placement of the mic, depending on the acoustics in your room, you might want to put it right in a corner.

4) Use a second vocal microphone, preferably one with an omni-directional pattern, when you are tracking vocals. As in 3 above, you'll have to experiment, placement and effect will depend on your room's acoustics.

5) Copy your vocal track twice. Pan one hard left, the other hard right. Now make small adjustments to the EQ's of those channels. The best effect is to boost the top in one channel and shelf the low end sharply, do the opposite on the other side, then feed them in slowly and listen.

6) Do the same as in 5 above, place one side in phase, the other out of phase.

Hope that will at least give you something to try. I'm looking forward to the answers to the question - it really applies to all cases where you copy tracks and manipulate them.
 
One cool trick I did recently with a doubled vocal was I inserted a stereo EQ with phase switches (Waves Paragraphic) With this you can invert the pase of either side. So I inverted the left on one track, the right on the other. They were both panned center, but the phase gave a nice "stereo" effect. I don't know what doing this did exactly, what kind of effect you'd call it, but it sounds cool! I didn't eq much at all, a high pass on both that was it. This way I could get a "stereo" sound without panning, which made the differences in the two vocals a little too obvious. A side note. When we tracked the second take, the singer didn't ever listen to the first! He was just DEAD on! I was going to comp them together but when I heard them both together it was like "hey.. cool" :)

-jhe
 
Personally, I think that double tracking with one voice on the right and the other on the left is the coolest and simplest thing you can do.. from the same singer, of course. It's not that hard.

Isaiah
 
Say you double your vocal track, and now you pan one left, the other right.

What problems might you have created? There are 2 answers.
Click to expand...

Won't this cause some phase cancellation?
 
Yup - you have to take into consideration that, if you double and pan - you HAVE to reference back in mono to see if it worked or not.
The common problems that might occur are phase cancellation and phase shifting
 
FAT FULL VOCALS

There really does seem to be so many ways to get those warm full vocals.But taking out the effect based option , you still cant beat a great vocalist double tracking themselves to get a smooth(dare I say caramel) subtle effect.On the double a good vocalist will instinctively soften the ssss and watch or leave out the "t " s and the "d"s at the end of words.It's also knowing how to use the proximity effect to advantage. Get in real close and sexy with the mic but soften that attack and you'll hear some neat stuff but it does take a lot of practice.
 
Hmmmm... Singing tips... I like that. :D This way you can tell 'em in advance, and blame them afterwards. :D

This is cool, now I can tell my singer what to work on while I'm saving the $$... More?
 
FAT FULL VOCALS

There really does seem to be so many ways to get those warm full vocals.But taking out the effect based option , you still cant beat a great vocalist double tracking themselves to get a smooth(dare I say caramel) subtle effect.On the double a good vocalist will instinctively soften the ssss and watch or leave out the "t " s and the "d"s at the end of words.It's also knowing how to use the proximity effect to advantage. Get in real close and sexy with the mic but soften that attack and you'll hear some neat stuff but it does take a lot of practice.
 
Yup - you have to take into consideration that, if you double and pan - you HAVE to reference back in mono to see if it worked or not.
The common problems that might occur are phase cancellation and phase shifting
Click to expand...

OK, so how do you deal with the phasing issues? Do you just reverse the phase of the doubled track or is it more complicated than that?
 
Re: FAT FULL VOCALS

Moonlightm said:
There really does seem to be so many ways to get those warm full vocals.But taking out the effect based option , you still cant beat a great vocalist double tracking themselves to get a smooth(dare I say caramel) subtle effect.On the double a good vocalist will instinctively soften the ssss and watch or leave out the "t " s and the "d"s at the end of words.It's also knowing how to use the proximity effect to advantage. Get in real close and sexy with the mic but soften that attack and you'll hear some neat stuff but it does take a lot of practice.
Click to expand...
Moonlight, I panned your first response to the left, and your second post to the right, and it seems to be creating some phase issues... What do you suggest? A different font maybe? :D
 
KaBudakan, Nice one!We may be looking at faze rather than phase???? Feel free to reply in 5.1 surround.
 
I FIND THAT A LITTLE BIT OF REVERB REALLY HELPS IT BLEND IN WITH THE REST OF THE FORUM.
 
More then 2 answers

1. Phase problems
2. Mono problems
3. Rhythm problems - audio delay
4. Might sound like 2 mono parts rather then 1 Stereo
5. In mono , hard panned tracks can be buried in the mix
 
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