vocal overdubs and layers (panning)

[alphadelta80]

Sounds like pure crap. The rappers I work with, have a habit of using 3 or 4 layers of the same damn verse. I guess it's kinda like Tupac or maybe Eminem.

The difference is, When Eminem does it, you can barely hear it. You have no problem hearing the lead vocal.

When the rappers I record do it. They use layer 2 to fill in the the word they left out of layer 1 and layer 3 to fill in ....you get the picture.


Now when it's time to mix, the fun begins. Where is my main vocal? The 0db rule goes out the window because 4 vocal tracks at 0db sounds like fingernails on the chalkboard.

Choruses are even worse. 4 vocal tracks containing loud chanting of the same 4 lines. Where do I pan these? I know, "wherever it sounds best". BUT It sounds equally shitty everywhere I pan. I'm getting some type of chorus-sounding effect and I dont like it.

What are some common practices when dealing with overlapping vocals?
AND. When a vocalist gets lazy and would rather do a copy and paste of the original vocal track, How do I get that layered sound that rappers like?

 

[Robert D]

When a vocalist gets lazy and would rather do a copy and paste of the original vocal track, How do I get that layered sound that rappers like?

You don't, at least not without hours of slicing and dicing to try to emulate what a few minutes of recording a proper dub vox will give you. I don't do rap, but the concept is the same here. You need a solid lead vox track, either a one take or a comp, and then once it's sitting in the mix the rapper needs to listen to it several times, learn to copy it closely, then do a couple of dub tracks. If they're close but not quite, then a few edits should fix the stick-outs, and mixing them well under the lead should achieve the desired effect. I don't like to pan them out because it makes it easier to detect them as seperate when I'm trying to create one big voice.

 

[etan4]

Record the Lead Vox
Record BGV 1 Pan Hard Left
Double BGV 1 Pan Hard Right ( by double I mean RE-record)
Record BGV 2 Pan Left
Double BGV 2 Pan Right
etc etc

and than mess with volume to get them to sit right also

 

[DrJones]

You don't, at least not without hours of slicing and dicing to try to emulate what a few minutes of recording a proper dub vox will give you. I don't do rap, but the concept is the same here. You need a solid lead vox track, either a one take or a comp, and then once it's sitting in the mix the rapper needs to listen to it several times, learn to copy it closely, then do a couple of dub tracks. If they're close but not quite, then a few edits should fix the stick-outs, and mixing them well under the lead should achieve the desired effect. I don't like to pan them out because it makes it easier to detect them as seperate when I'm trying to create one big voice.

If he is that serious about being a rapper he shouldnt be lazy. BUT!!! We all have worked with local musicians. Its their terms, being on time, not drinking, ect... Thats when you have to shine the most. There are tricks, they take time but not forever. The parts that are wanted dbled your are gonig to want your going to slice and dice anyway. Its part of production.

As far as that doubling fx with a copied track. Depending on the tempo, select the track and slide the track a few MS untill u get a cool sound. This works especially good with Hip-Hop because the drum machine keeps perfect tempo. Once you get that sound all the corresponding tracks you can slide the same amount of time and should keep the same.

Maybe add a small amount of effect on the accents.

You can do somthing similar with a delay but, I get a cleaner "natural" sound doubled than delayed.

All in all, If your artist could do the tracks, it could leave you more options.


Good Luck!

 

[ez_willis]

Sounds like pure crap. The rappers I work with, have a habit of using 3 or 4 layers of the same damn verse. I guess it's kinda like Tupac or maybe Eminem.

The difference is, When Eminem does it, you can barely hear it. You have no problem hearing the lead vocal.

When the rappers I record do it. They use layer 2 to fill in the the word they left out of layer 1 and layer 3 to fill in ....you get the picture.


Now when it's time to mix, the fun begins. Where is my main vocal? The 0db rule goes out the window because 4 vocal tracks at 0db sounds like fingernails on the chalkboard.

Choruses are even worse. 4 vocal tracks containing loud chanting of the same 4 lines. Where do I pan these? I know, "wherever it sounds best". BUT It sounds equally shitty everywhere I pan. I'm getting some type of chorus-sounding effect and I dont like it.

What are some common practices when dealing with overlapping vocals?
AND. When a vocalist gets lazy and would rather do a copy and paste of the original vocal track, How do I get that layered sound that rappers like?

Sounds like you need a few Bobbleheads in the studio to distract them.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Sounds like pure crap. The rappers I work with, have a habit of using 3 or 4 layers of the same damn verse. I guess it's kinda like Tupac or maybe Eminem.
...
When a vocalist gets lazy and would rather do a copy and paste of the original vocal track, How do I get that layered sound that rappers like?

You don't.

Tupac or Eminem or Dre didn't get their sound or their status or their bling by being lazy. Whatever one's feelings about their product, the fact is there's not a single one of them that got their sound by cutting corners or being lazy.

Also, they came into the studio ready to ace the test, not ready to slack off the engineer's abilities.

While it takes a great engineer to separate a great-sounding recording from a good one, it takes a great performer to make a performance worth recording.

G.

 

[chazba]

"Due Diligence"

One of my most important early lessons in the studio was the foolishness of the "Fix-it-in-the-mix" mentality. Do it over till you (they) get it right. If a "producer" doesn't insist on having every track just right, they are wasting money and time. I have had a few occasions where I would not recommend someone because in my opinion they failed to provide "due diligence" to the project just completed.

chazba

 

[Ironklad Audio]

my recommendation would be to get a single, really good take - then put a little pinch of chorus onto it, with not very much depth or width

now copy/paste the vocal to another track, back it up a millisecond or two, and give the chorus on this one a little more width/depth. drop the volume a few db's, and you should be good to go

i did the same thing this weekend for a hardcore band i did an ep for...there were a few spots where there were backup screams in addition to the lead vocal yells, and using the different choruses helped to make the backup vocals audible in the mix, but without detracting from the lead