I've recorded my vocals using an AKG C3000B on CEP2 and they sound fine but they tend to "stand out" from the rest of the tracks. I've heard some people say add reverb until they sound right or turn them down. When I turn it down and it sounds like it's meshing well, the vocals are then too low. Do I need to lower the levels of the instrument tracks during vocal periods or is that a bad idea? Any suggestions? Thanks.
Vocal mastering. Advice would be appreciated.
- Thread starter 7TPFN
- Start date
dobro
Well-known member
Gee, what most people are aiming at in a mix is to get the vocals to stand out.
When you say they stand out, I guess that means something negative, right? Negative in what way?
Here's my general approach: I get the levels of all the tracks right in relation to each other. Then I start EQing stuff in order to get good separation of each track on the one hand, and a pleasant combination of sound on the other. If I have to compress tracks I do that either before I EQ or after - not a big deal generally which order. Finally I add effects like reverb to give the tracks the space I want them to have. As I go along, I listen to every change I make to every individual track in the whole mix, to see how well it fits in.
When you say they stand out, I guess that means something negative, right? Negative in what way?
Here's my general approach: I get the levels of all the tracks right in relation to each other. Then I start EQing stuff in order to get good separation of each track on the one hand, and a pleasant combination of sound on the other. If I have to compress tracks I do that either before I EQ or after - not a big deal generally which order. Finally I add effects like reverb to give the tracks the space I want them to have. As I go along, I listen to every change I make to every individual track in the whole mix, to see how well it fits in.
chrisharris
King of Bling
Part of the problem is the mic, but if it's the "B," it should be okay for vocals. Not great, but not too harsh.
Try this. If the piece has drums and bass...mix them together first. In fact, whatever constitutes the low end of the song, mix that first. Then do the vocal before you do anything else. Most people seem to mix the vocal last, but if you can get it to sit right with the bass and drums first, it makes it a ton easier. I'm just talking about overall level here.
Then, when you bring in the guitars or the strings or the kazoos or whatever else fills out the bed, use the volume envelope line in the multitrack to bring certain passages of the vocal either up or down. You'll be doing manual compression, only it doesn't sound like dogs**t.
Do reverb on the vocal last. Give it a shot - for me, it makes the whole process faster and generally, you end up with a vocal that is distinct and intelligible without sounding like it's on top of the music.
Try this. If the piece has drums and bass...mix them together first. In fact, whatever constitutes the low end of the song, mix that first. Then do the vocal before you do anything else. Most people seem to mix the vocal last, but if you can get it to sit right with the bass and drums first, it makes it a ton easier. I'm just talking about overall level here.
Then, when you bring in the guitars or the strings or the kazoos or whatever else fills out the bed, use the volume envelope line in the multitrack to bring certain passages of the vocal either up or down. You'll be doing manual compression, only it doesn't sound like dogs**t.
Do reverb on the vocal last. Give it a shot - for me, it makes the whole process faster and generally, you end up with a vocal that is distinct and intelligible without sounding like it's on top of the music.
vocal mastering emi mastering lab sydney
if your using ce pro 2 first run fft filter over vox to remove mic rumble that particular mic is a bit harsh eq the vox till youve got it where you like it amplify it and then run compression on it .you will have to be carefull of the factory compression not real flash but you can make alterations to it.compression should nevr be heard but should level out peaks then you can bring the vox up in the mix to the right level you should also clean eq all your tracks so you will get a greater transparency in the mix this will allow the vox to run at a lower level and still be distinguishable good luck boogiemen
if your using ce pro 2 first run fft filter over vox to remove mic rumble that particular mic is a bit harsh eq the vox till youve got it where you like it amplify it and then run compression on it .you will have to be carefull of the factory compression not real flash but you can make alterations to it.compression should nevr be heard but should level out peaks then you can bring the vox up in the mix to the right level you should also clean eq all your tracks so you will get a greater transparency in the mix this will allow the vox to run at a lower level and still be distinguishable good luck boogiemen
dobro
Well-known member
"if your using ce pro 2 first run fft filter over vox to remove mic rumble that particular mic is a bit harsh"
okay (not that harshness has anything to do with mic rumble...)
"eq the vox till youve got it where you like it"
Yup.
"amplify it and then run compression on it."
Why amplify it? Why run compression on it automatically whether it needs it or not? Bullshit.
"you will have to be carefull of the factory compression not real flash but you can make alterations to it."
In fact, don't use the presets at all. Work out your own compression. If you have to use compression at all, that is.
"compression should nevr be heard but should level out peaks then you can bring the vox up in the mix to the right level"
You ever heard of periods, dude? Communicate, furhphuxache. Do it in style.
"you should also clean eq all your tracks so you will get a greater transparency in the mix this will allow the vox to run at a lower level and still be distinguishable"
'clean EQ all your tracks'? What the FUCK are you talking about? Explain yourself, two poster.
okay (not that harshness has anything to do with mic rumble...)
"eq the vox till youve got it where you like it"
Yup.
"amplify it and then run compression on it."
Why amplify it? Why run compression on it automatically whether it needs it or not? Bullshit.
"you will have to be carefull of the factory compression not real flash but you can make alterations to it."
In fact, don't use the presets at all. Work out your own compression. If you have to use compression at all, that is.
"compression should nevr be heard but should level out peaks then you can bring the vox up in the mix to the right level"
You ever heard of periods, dude? Communicate, furhphuxache. Do it in style.
"you should also clean eq all your tracks so you will get a greater transparency in the mix this will allow the vox to run at a lower level and still be distinguishable"
'clean EQ all your tracks'? What the FUCK are you talking about? Explain yourself, two poster.
chrisharris
King of Bling
Well now...SOMEBODY certainly woke up on the wrong side of the bed today, lol.dobro said:
I'm with you though; both grammatically and musically. I have to admit something though...I do use a vocal compression preset, lol. It's not in CEP, it's in Waves C4 - the "Pop Vocal" preset. It seems to tame my AKG C3000. But it's really more of a glorified EQ preset than anything. I still have to manually adjust the volume levels throughout the tune to make them sit right.
BlackoutSP
New member
i just wrote a bigass article similar to dobro's, but the site logged me off and deleted my post, i will sumarize:
FFting things is very dangerous and can seriously screw up recordings. unless you are extremely knowledgeable about how and FFT filter operates, do not attempt to use it, except PERHAPS, if you are very confident it does not hurt your recording in ANY WAY AT ALL, you can MAYBE use a preset
a carefully-done 31 band EQ should take any mic rumble out of the mix, but anyone with a condenser should have a shockmount with it, and unless people are bumping the cable, mic, stand, or are jumping around while your laying tracks down, there should be no or almost undetectable mic rumble, if a proper shockmount is used correctly.
you should NEVER and i really mean NEVER have to amplify a track by more than a dB or two. one of the first things i really learned in the recording industry was the louder you get the raw track, the better your signal-to-noise ratio is. so, boost each input's signal as high as you can get it (without clipping the channel). this may clip the master volume meters, and if so, you can turn down the master fader-but at least your noise (that is inherent in recording) will be a solid 40 dB under the strong part of your track right?
compression is helpful about 85-95% of the time, but most of what compression is for is to make things stand out in the mix, so it does not seem appropriate hear UNLESS: as boogieman said, compression should not be noticeable, it should smooth out the peaks. if there are nasty, noticeable peaks in the track, you could compress that very top-end, otherwise a very careful expansion may be suited if you really want these vocals (not a vox, that sounds like some yamaha synth shit, not the most natural musical instrument in creation-your voice)
of course, after you have done everything you are going to do to the raw track, you should level it to where you want it in the mix, good job there, boogieman.
two more comments, first, what about reverb? reverb is this worlds best way to smooth somthing out and make it float into the mix and round itself out. don't bother with CEP's quickverb, i did for a while, but it just doesn' have the quality that the reverb and full reverb effects have. i would highly recommend using the full reverb effect (which can be put to a very light setting if desired) and clicking 'prepare now' so that you can use it in the multitrack (you may have to lock the track, if your computer can't handle the processing.
Lastly, (i could barely restrain my laughter about this one):
da fuck is a clean eq? the very definition of clean is that there are no delay effects, filters, or processing of any type on the track, it is just the raw track, with panning and volume added if desired. panning and volume are the ONLY things you can do to a track and still call it truly clean. perhaps, boogieman, you (and whoever you work with) have come up with another meaning for the phrase "clean EQ," which is fine, i have done that with many, many things, but i don't just start throwing them out into public forums without explanation. you either need to explain yourself on this one, or given by the rest of your post, either get LOTS of help about how to do recording and post-production, or get LOST from this industry by the time your done reading this.
-Keith
FFting things is very dangerous and can seriously screw up recordings. unless you are extremely knowledgeable about how and FFT filter operates, do not attempt to use it, except PERHAPS, if you are very confident it does not hurt your recording in ANY WAY AT ALL, you can MAYBE use a preset
a carefully-done 31 band EQ should take any mic rumble out of the mix, but anyone with a condenser should have a shockmount with it, and unless people are bumping the cable, mic, stand, or are jumping around while your laying tracks down, there should be no or almost undetectable mic rumble, if a proper shockmount is used correctly.
you should NEVER and i really mean NEVER have to amplify a track by more than a dB or two. one of the first things i really learned in the recording industry was the louder you get the raw track, the better your signal-to-noise ratio is. so, boost each input's signal as high as you can get it (without clipping the channel). this may clip the master volume meters, and if so, you can turn down the master fader-but at least your noise (that is inherent in recording) will be a solid 40 dB under the strong part of your track right?
compression is helpful about 85-95% of the time, but most of what compression is for is to make things stand out in the mix, so it does not seem appropriate hear UNLESS: as boogieman said, compression should not be noticeable, it should smooth out the peaks. if there are nasty, noticeable peaks in the track, you could compress that very top-end, otherwise a very careful expansion may be suited if you really want these vocals (not a vox, that sounds like some yamaha synth shit, not the most natural musical instrument in creation-your voice)
of course, after you have done everything you are going to do to the raw track, you should level it to where you want it in the mix, good job there, boogieman.
two more comments, first, what about reverb? reverb is this worlds best way to smooth somthing out and make it float into the mix and round itself out. don't bother with CEP's quickverb, i did for a while, but it just doesn' have the quality that the reverb and full reverb effects have. i would highly recommend using the full reverb effect (which can be put to a very light setting if desired) and clicking 'prepare now' so that you can use it in the multitrack (you may have to lock the track, if your computer can't handle the processing.
Lastly, (i could barely restrain my laughter about this one):
da fuck is a clean eq? the very definition of clean is that there are no delay effects, filters, or processing of any type on the track, it is just the raw track, with panning and volume added if desired. panning and volume are the ONLY things you can do to a track and still call it truly clean. perhaps, boogieman, you (and whoever you work with) have come up with another meaning for the phrase "clean EQ," which is fine, i have done that with many, many things, but i don't just start throwing them out into public forums without explanation. you either need to explain yourself on this one, or given by the rest of your post, either get LOTS of help about how to do recording and post-production, or get LOST from this industry by the time your done reading this.
-Keith